Sounds like he was a pretty decent guy. I guess my response to him would have been that he should *always* assume people are carrying.
This is a discussion on Well that was fun, LEO Missouri within the LEO Encounters forums, part of the Main Category category; Had a colt I took in this morning to have gelded. Got finished at the vets, loaded him back up ...
Had a colt I took in this morning to have gelded. Got finished at the vets, loaded him back up and left for home slowly since he was still a bit groggy. About half way home (40 miles from vet) I see red and blue flashing lights in my mirrors. Yippie. I KNOW I wasn't speeding since I was taking it easy on the colt, and hadn't changed lanes since I left town so I was a bit worried that something was wrong back in the trailer and the horse was in trouble.
He gets out of the car right away and comes up to the door and I ask him "What is wrong?" thinking I was going to find something horrible when I go back to look in the trailer. He says, "Do you know your trailer tags are expired?" WHEW!!!! The horse is fine was my first thought, then it was "what the heck!". I told him I sure didn't. He said they were expired in 2010, LOLOLOLOL! Most of our trailers are lifetime licensed, but this one wasn't as it is an equine trailer and not a stock, so I guess about 2 years ago I forgot to get it taken care of (yeah, it's my job to keep the vehicles/trailers up to date so no one else to blame). So he asks me for my license and insurance and I hand them to him.
I am carrying, but MO is not a "notify" state so I say nothing about my pistol. Then he asks me to step out of the vehicle and come back to his car with him. So THEN I tell him I have a CCW and am carrying (I do that because it is my new pistol and I don't have a good holster for it yet and it will print though my shirt and I have no desire to end up on the ground with my face in the gravel because he might be one to "react" instead of think) and hand him my CCW permit. (before anyone goes off about calling it a CCW as they have done in the past, Missouri issues a CCW license and that IS what they call it, not a CC permit). He asks, "where is it now?" and I tell him it's on my waist and he asks me to take it out and lay it on my seat before I get out. So I do so, we walk back to his car, I get in and he does all his computer stuff and asks me while pointing at my expired trailer tag, "So I guess you haven't pulled the trailer for a while since it's been expired since Dec 2010?" I start laughing and tell him, "No, I drive it all the time, it just appears you are the first one that noticed, I didn't even realize they were expired and I load up back there all the time." He gets to laughing too and does write me for an expired tag, which I expected and deserved. Looks like I will be making a trip to the license office today too.
He then hands me the ticket and tells me he appreciates my informing him that I was carrying but would prefer to know right away. I look at him, since we seem to be getting along well, and ask him if he has a few minutes or if he needs to get moving. He looks at me funny and says he is in no hurry. So off I go, I tell him that since Missouri is not an "must inform" state, that I actually did not need to inform him at all. He replies exactly as I expected and was ready for, he says, "Actually, you are right but it is much safer for both of us if you inform me right away. I mean look, if I had left you in the vehicle and walked back here to write the ticket and then walked back up to you, while I was behind the trailer I couldn't easily see what you were doing and I wouldn't know if you had a weapon in your hands or not. 100% of the officers are just like me and would want to know as soon as we walked up to you."
So Here I go! I said, "Wait a minute. How is it safer for you to know that I have a pistol in my possession when I am a legal permit holder and never touch my weapon in your presence and do not intend to use it? When I know that I do not have a record and there is not one reason for you to arrest me? What part of knowing I have a pistol makes you safer in those circumstances? Now don't answer quickly, but think about it and give me an honest answer."
He again gives me that funny look, takes a minute and then says, "All I can say is 100% of the officers out here would prefer to know right away." I laugh and smile at him (nicely not snidely) and thank him for his honest answer but, "we both know what an answer like that means, don't we? But it does give you something to think about doesn't it? I'm glad to have had a chance to speak to you". So I tell him that is all I wanted to say and thank him for taking a few minutes to talk with me and get out of his car and go back to my truck and go on home to drop off the colt and have a bite of lunch before heading into town again this afternoon to fix the license issue.
However, the funniest part of this, I get home and look at the ticket and in the part that says, "Did then and there commit the following offense. The facts supporting this belief are as follows:" he wrote the following -
Failure to register motor vehicle annually with Department of Revenue: Trailer plate MO ***-***, Expired DEC 2012
ROTFLOL!!! Wonder if I can go into the department and tell them I'm not paying the fine since it's not DEC 2012 yet? LOL!
"I have tried to live my life so that my family would love me and my friends respect me. The others can do whatever the "heck" they please".-John Wayne
I can't believe I read the whole thing! Lol.
Flip 'em the bird and die like a VIKING
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I'm glad you had a decent experience with the officer. I find when I give respect with officers, I get the same back.
You have made a very valid point about notifying the officer. (I too live in a state where you are not required to notify). I also know that for some reason, the officers want you to tell them right away. Well here's the deal... if I am a BG and I am carrying, I'm certainly NOT going to tell you I'm carrying and if I'm a GG, then I will tell if you ask. So what's the point in notifying at all? An officer has record that you are a holder of a permit/license (whatever they call it in your particular state), so he or she should be ready for you to have a firearm. *shrugs* I still don't get the whole "notify" issue.
~ "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426)
You should definitely ask if you can pay the fine January 2013 :p
If it doesn't fit, FORCE it! If it breaks then it needed to be replaced anyway.
That slip of the pen might have been on purpose so you can get the ticket tossed and get a new plate without penalty.
I do dispute the "it is much safer for both of us if you inform me right away" crap, though.
When they "Nudge. Shove. Shoot.",
Don't retreat. Just reload.
Because people who intend to shoot police officers don't mind breaking the "murder" laws but oh no they are going to be sure to follow law/ takethe time/money to get a concealed carry permit/license etc
Patrol officers seem to love barking up the wrong trees on a regular basis rather than using common sense
I would definitely renew the plate right away, and then contest the ticket.
What I am shaking my head at is the fact that he let the OP take the gun out of his waist and put it on the seat. I sure wouldn't want somebody handling their gun when I am investigating them.