Off-duty LEO encounter

[joeren]

LOL. As long as it matches your shoes.

Cheers
Joe

[Glock Fan]

I agree with ecocks regarding open carry and changing folks behavior. I also agree that it's a personal choice. With that said, I personally choose to conceal to avoid being stopped and harassed unnecessarily due to the behavior of someone totally out of my control. We have the right to bear arms, as responsible firearms owners, we have to remember that there are other folks out there who have rights as well. One example would be folks who panic and call 911 every time they get "scared" and see a gun. Personally, I think those folks should go the way of the dinosaurs, however this being the United States of America, it's their "right" to call 911 if they feel threatened. Think about it, if a LEO asks to see your permit, you are required by law to present it. If some "Joe Citizen" asked you, would you honestly present him with the permit? I would tell the guy where to go. I don't need some random dude knowing my home address. With that said, I can understand why folks might panic when they see a gun, and therefore I choose to carry concealed.

[Fallguy]

Glock Fan...I understand your point, I really do and I respect it.

However...if you owned a dog...and you had a neighbor that had a fear of dogs...would you never allow your dog outside because of your neighbor's irrational fear? Or would you do what is legal for you to do and let the neighbor just get over it?

Of course hopefully with the later...the police would explain to the neighbor what you are doing is legal and they will need to learn how to live with it.

[Glock Fan]

Fall Guy,

I understand your argument. I wouldn't care what my neighbor thought about my dog. I would take him walking, keep him on a leash and clean up after him. This is a situation where I wouldn't care what my neighbor though. Where I live you don't need a permit to walk your dog. There's no anti-dog foundation trying to get laws passed to take away my right to own a dog. The police won't respond if someone calls 911 and says "there's a guy on the corner of x & y streets walking a dog". I think you get the picture.

With that said, in most places (except VT and AK), you do need a permit to carry a firearm. Here in HI we need a permit to purchase a handgun, and there's a 14 day waiting period for each handgun purchased (unless you purchase multiple on the same day). The police chief hasn't issued a private citizen a carry permit since 1976. (I've heard of rare cases where visiting dignitaries and their security team got temporary permits, but no true ccw like the ones I've got from FL, GA, NV, and UT). At this point, I will do everything I can to exercise my right, but at the same time, I won't do anything to give power to the anti-gunners. I've had cases where my neighbors call the police because they see me unloading a rifle case from my vehicle. It took me several years to become familiar with the officers at the local police station. It's at a point where a SGT, the LT, or CPT will respond with the beat officer (when one of them is available) to educate the neighbors about the law and other aspect of a responsible firearms owner. The senior officer would explain what the law is and why they are not "doing anything" to the person who called. We have a large military presence here in Hawaii. Many of the folks are here for a couple of years, then they PCS to another duty station. When I get new neighbors who aren't familiar with firearms, then the visit from the local police officers usually begin. I do have a couple of "problem neighbors" (You know the kind, have huge parties and make a lot of noise until 5am and do this several times each month). I've never called the police on them (though I should have on a couple of occasions), but it's funny how they always blame me when the cops show up and tell them to tone it down. It's also funny how they mention to the responding officer "by the way officer, the guy is a NRA member and has a bunch of guns in his house". That's when the "pay off" for me comes into play. The beat officer gives me hassles, I ask him nicely to "please talk to Sgt. xxx, LT. yyy, or Cpt. zzz". The officer calls in to the station and either one of the "brass" come by and clear things up or the officer goes back and talks to the resident and allows me to go about my business.

Basically what I'm saying is that if you treat folks with respect, then hopefully they'll treat you the same way. If you respect the rights of others and demonstrate to the folks who count (LEO for example) that you're doing everything in your power to be a "good guy", then things usually work out in your favor. If you act like a buddy of mine and push the envelope (the guy walks around his yard with a S&W .44 mag holstered), doing stuff that might be "legal" yet may alarm some, expect trouble to come your way. This guy has been arrested several times. Never charged, but arrested and released "pending further investigation". This usually happens when he mouths off to the responding officer. The charge is usually "disorderly conduct". It's a matter of picking your battles. He often tells me that I have no [guts]. I'd rather have no [guts], keep my firearms and stay out of trouble with "Johnny Law", then to be like him and spend thousands of dollars on legal fees, not to mention the time spent in the holding cells.

I'd rather spend my money on more firearms and ammunition. Others may choose to exercise their rights in their way, I'll continue doing it my way.

[Fallguy]

Glock Fan

First I admit I didn't see you lived in HI before my first response...I agree that in such a strict gun law state...you have to be more careful.

I also believe in not pushing someone's buttons just for the sake of pushing them, having respect for all (until they do something to take it away) and trying to get along with your neighbors.

I think we feel pretty much the same on things.... I guess what I was saying...was if you are exercising your right to openly carry (where legal of course) someone who sees you may have a right to be scared, offended or whatever, but there isn't much they or a LEO can do about it. :) Unless like your buddy you give them another reason.... You need to help him with tact, respect and such... :) Although I have to admit I think it is ridiculous to have the law called on you for walking around armed in your own yard.

Have a good day....but aren't they all good in HI? :)

[kwo51]

If more people did it legally then it would be a commom thing and all the anti freaks would be gone to some place else.

[Glock Fan]

I agree that more need to do it legally. I'm all for getting rid of the "anti freaks". It's funny that a good majority of the local LEO support law abiding gun owners. As usual, it's the very vocal "minority" funded heavily by the brady bunch that makes things difficult.

[mp301]

Yeah, I have to agree with BikerRN, if it would have been properly hidden, it would not have happened. The guy may have handled it a little more descreetly, sure. But why put yourself in the situation in the first place. Other then Arizona, were open carry is so common no one bats an eye, evey other state that has open carry doesnt mean its a common enough practice to keep people from freaking out. My CCW instructor in Nevada who was also a Las Vegas LEO put it in perpective. if we get a call about someone with a gun we will respond and point our guns at him and cuff him and ask questions afterward....even though open Carry is legal in Nevada. Im thinking that I would want to avoid this proceedure!

[The Gunny]

Yes but in this story the store was a convenience store not a liquor store. In my state it is legal to enter a liquor store only places off limits are those that are off limits to persons under 21. It pays to know the laws in your area. As to the incident in question it was slightly tactless of the officer however I can see his point as well.

[TheEggman]

I had a similar experience picking up a keg for a wedding party.

The officer, however, didn't question my carrying, he came over, leaned in very close and asked me how I liked the compact Glocks. (I was carrying a G26)

He wasn't interested in my opinion, he just wanted to get close enough to see if I had been drinking. (Which I had not)

The encounter was more 'friendly' than adversarial, and to me, was a good example of tact on the part of the officer.