LEOs carrying concealed and drinking in a bar in Michigan.

[SimonJester]

Twice in the past month, I've noticed police going into a bar with side arms. I check IDs at a local bar and try to keep the peace.

One was an officer, off duty, in partial uniform and was still carrying his pistol on his belt. The bar owner said he was a semi-regular and let him stay.

Another was an off-duty officer in mufti. He showed me his ID and badge when I asked for it at the door. This was the only reason I didn't call the local police when I saw the bulge under his shirt. I was concerned and just as I was telling the owner, the officer raised both hands on the dance floor and flashed us all with his gun. I 'facepalmed' and looked at my boss. With a nod from her, I confronted him. I told him that he had the choice of either leaving for the night or taking the gun to his car.

Both of the officers were drinking.

I talked with the first officer again last night. Seems knowledgeable and personable. He showed me on his CPL that there is an exemption for LEOs and I went to look up the law.

Michigan Legislature - Section 28.425o

Yes, LEOs may carry on prohibited property (churches, bars, auditoriums), but what I haven't been able to nail down yet, is can a LEO carry and drink?

When I carry, the law states clearly that any drinking on my part is illegal. Is there an exemption for LEOs when they carry?

[ma6907]

why dont you just be happy that a LEO has you back in case something really bad happens and concentrate your efforts at keeping the people out that you want out! Tell those guys that you are happy to have them if bad stuff happens and tell them that if they ever need you when you are off, you would help them too. They are your friends, not your enemies!

[SimonJester]

Why? They are drunk and they have guns.

[abock33]

Originally Posted by ma6907

why dont you just be happy that a LEO has you back in case something really bad happens and concentrate your efforts at keeping the people out that you want out! Tell those guys that you are happy to have them if bad stuff happens and tell them that if they ever need you when you are off, you would help them too. They are your friends, not your enemies!

I think I detect sarcasm.

For the op. I would think they would have the same zero tolerance as regular ccw carriers. Ask their superiors or the state police.
Imo it seems
Like the leos think they are above the law because they think that they are the law.

[krazyk]

Originally Posted by ma6907

why dont you just be happy that a LEO has you back in case something really bad happens and concentrate your efforts at keeping the people out that you want out! Tell those guys that you are happy to have them if bad stuff happens and tell them that if they ever need you when you are off, you would help them too. They are your friends, not your enemies!

Ya be happy they're screwing you with a Phillips head instead of a flat head
Ever heard of leading by example?

[GeneralSumter]

I would contact the chief of police and find out for sure. Then, if they are not supposed to be drinking & carrying, I'd not allow them in. Unfortunately, if they get unruly... who you gonna call? I suppose you could call 911 and just report "drunks with guns in your bar" and don't tell them that you know they are cops. That'll get uniforms there quick. Probably what I would do.

[2beararms]

Originally Posted by SimonJester

Why? They are drunk and they have guns.

Therein lies the question ... are they "drinking" or are they "drunk"?

I happen to be in an area (Florida) where drinking and carrying are a legal combination. Drunk and handling a weapon are not. Many people CCW or LEO drink and carry and unless they get sloppy drunk it never creates a problem. It is the same as driving, the point you are impaired is definable. The zero alcholol rules are based on the same logic as the zero guns rules ... none.

I didn't see ma6907's response as sarcastic. If this was Burger King you would be happy to have an armed cop at a table. I don't see the difference. The real question is what is does the law say is your (meaning your establishments) responsibility in this.

If the law requires that your establishment keep people from being armed (or armed and drinking in the case of LEO) while in your property and you can be held responsible for violations (such as is the case for age), then by all means YES get rid of these guys. (I would assume if that is the case that you have metal detectors or you search every patron just as you check id's, so I doubt it is the case.) However, if the law says that a person cannot be armed and in your premises but it is NOT your responsibility (it is the patron who will be charged, not you) then I would say leave it be unless they are getting sloppy drunk ... in which case DO NOT HANDLE IT, let local LEO do it.

Yes, LEO's often think they are above the law but when they get caught in that attitude by their department they face the stiffness of the penalty. (and internal justice in LEO can be so much worse than external penalties, but not publicly understood). As noted, you could call THEIR cheif and report it.

Trying to enforce "civilian" law on LEO is simply asking for trouble. I know of bars that have tried to make LEO's follow civillian law and have wound up night after night with the partying stopped and every one of their patrons having to produce ID (or worse). After a few nights of that, there is no one left in the bar and you are pretty much out of business.

Is this legal ... probably not, but it happens everyday somewhere. It is just above the "thin blue line".

Only a fool decides to police the police. If you are not happy with the situation then let other LEO handle it. Simply call local LEO and tell them exactly what the problem is, they will either do something or will not but either way, it is no longer your problem unless these guys are drunk enough that they are going to start waving guns or shooting people out of stupor in which case local LEO WILL handle it.

[ma6907]

Man--I wasn't trying to start a shit storm! I am a small business owner and I like it when LEO's carry at my business because I know if something happens, they are already there to help. This has come up several times (2 that I can think of off the top of my head). I am not encouraging people to drink and carry but I wouldnt dream of escorting a LEO out! If they are not causing trouble, let them stay. All LEO's that I know carry EVERYWHERE they go. One guy I know had a 2 shot .22 in his pocket at the altar when he got married They are targeted everywhere they go--if they are not drunk or rowdy, cut em a break!

[abock33]

Originally Posted by ma6907

why dont you just be happy that a LEO has you back in case something really bad happens and concentrate your efforts at keeping the people out that you want out! Tell those guys that you are happy to have them if bad stuff happens and tell them that if they ever need you when you are off, you would help them too. They are your friends, not your enemies!

I didn't mean sarcastic in a bad way... I just thought the bold statement was funny sarcasm. I agree having a presence of the law is a goog thing to have in case the shtf, but like stated above I think they should lead by example. If they want to drink and have a good time they should leave the firearms in the car.

I wouldn't think there even has to be a law about drinking and ccw for LEOs. they are in the eyes of the public and are judged in everything they do. I do agree that I wouldn't worry about it unless their drinking and conduct get out of hand.

As for the accidental showing of the one guys firearm. I would probably remind him that other people in the bar might not know he is a cop and get worried about a MWG inside a bar.

[ma6907]

The Bold statment was actually something that a LEO told me when I asked him about civilians and CCW. He said he was happy to have everyday people trained to carry firearms and he hoped that if he ever got pinned down, a civilian might help him. That is why I said that. (I live in Tennessee).