Simon Properties Letter

[ecocks]

Thanks, really. It is a shame that we are reduced to speculating, guessing, assuming and so on as to their rationale. What completely floors me is the building history of tragedies and their continuing silence in the face of questions.

Judging from this silence, it seems apparent that there is actually no basis for believing that this in any way inhibits violence of any kind. No statistics are offered. No actuarial numbers seem to be able to be produced. Neither do I buy that it has anything to do with liability. Simply, Simon is not that much smarter than all the businesses which have not posted. (Reference other threads on this subject.)

I debated about putting this on the site, but decided to do so because now it can be searched and at least one time/date stamp is available for reference in the wake of their next event. Their silence will speak for itself.

You might also take a look at the other thread relating to why businesses are posted and note the unanswered questions there regarding insurance, bonding and such.

[toreskha]

Originally Posted by F1Frankie

I'm guessing that the way this would have to go as far as for those of us that strongly believe in our rights as citizens licensed to carry concealed weapons would be along the lines of 'don't ask, don't tell.' Unless the sign on the door specifically prohibits carry, I would think it might be permissible to carry. Then again, I wouldn't count on any support from Simon in the unfortunate event of a shooting.

What a shame, no?

That's my policy, and honestly, I don't think that Simon could take any legal action based on their "no carry" policies, except for kicking you out of the store. Just be careful (as always).

[Statkowski]

Simon Properties owns approximately five malls in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Are they posted? I have no idea, but if so, it doesn't mean a thing. Here in the Commonwealth the signs have no legal standing and may be construed as advisory only.

So, for what it's worth, licensed concealed carry, or open carry with or without a license (except if Philadelphia), is okay in Simon Properties malls, unless they find out and ask you to leave. If, however, they try to get you arrested you'll be collecting a good chunk of change from them.

[toreskha]

There's only a few opportunities during a mall trip for someone else to notice that you're carrying - in the restroom, in the changing room, and maybe if you have an unfortunate "holster malfunction". Be aware of when there might be an issue, and try to limit your risk as much as possible. Make the holster "invisible" with something else while it would otherwise be exposed or use a holster that is made in such a way that it tends to be more resilient during such situations.

For example, an IWB might be visible to people in other stalls. However, if you have a Smartcarry, it's much easier to keep that up while allowing your shirt to overlap it. A holster that mounts somewhere on your abdomen would only be visible while changing shirts.