it is legal?

S&WM&P40 · #1 03-21-2009, 08:02 PM

I'M looking at getting a mossberg 410 shotgun ( wife wants it) She wants the Mossberg 50104 500 FIELD 410 24 FL. It has a barrel length of 24'' she does not want the mossberg CRUISR she calls them Muder guns. But the CRUISR has a barrel length of 18 1/2''. It's made for home defense over the other one thats made more for hunting. So i want to know if i can get the gun smith to cut off 7 1/2'' of the other mossberg to make it have the barrel lenght of the CRUISR at 18 1/2''. Can this be done.

wolfhunter · #2 03-21-2009, 08:57 PM

In general, Yes. The minimum barrel length for shotguns is 18", but most shortened barrels are 18.5" so there's no question of "where to measure from". There's also a total length requirement, but an 18.5" barrel on a standard stock should meet it easily.

KimberPB · #3 03-21-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfhunter

In general, Yes. The minimum barrel length for shotguns is 18", but most shortened barrels are 18.5" so there's no question of "where to measure from". There's also a total length requirement, but an 18.5" barrel on a standard stock should meet it easily.

+1. Wolfhunter's got it right. I can't remember the over all right now either but I'll see if I can look it up.

netentity · #4 03-22-2009, 09:28 PM

Overall length with the stock fully extended is 26". What BATFE does is put an a rod down the barrel with the chamber empty. If the 18" mark isn't visible it's legal. If it shows you have an NFA firearm and better have a tax stamp for it.

S&WM&P40 · #5 03-22-2009, 09:58 PM

Well the overall length of the shotgun is 43 3/4 from stock to the end of the barrel. If i was to have 7 1/2'' cut off the barrel to make it have a barrel lenght of 18 1/2'' the gun would be a overall length of 36 1/4'' from barrel to stock. so i would be fine right? It's a fixed wooden stock not a M4 style stock.

wolfhunter · #6 03-22-2009, 10:00 PM

You'll be fine.

utimmer43 · #7 03-22-2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netentity

Overall length with the stock fully extended is 26". What BATFE does is put an a rod down the barrel with the chamber empty. If the 18" mark isn't visible it's legal. If it shows you have an NFA firearm and better have a tax stamp for it.

I've always been curious... at what point, if any, does it just become a pistol? If (just for the sake of argument) I take a single barrel break action .410 and cut the barrel to 5 or 6 inches and cut the stock off so that just enough to grip it is left, would that be considered a pistol?

gunnut284 · #8 03-23-2009, 03:35 AM

Umm, if my math is correct 7.5" would make it 16.5" long if you start with a 24" barrel. Which would be too short for a shotgun. Make sure to measure from the chamber to the muzzle and be a bit generous incase you need to trim a bit. Remember, measure twice, cut once.
And yes, you can cut it as long as the finished product has a 18" or longer barrel and the overall length is 26.5" long (stock extended if folding or collapsable). Rifles can be 16" in barrel length, same overall length restrictions.

netentity · #9 03-23-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utimmer43

I've always been curious... at what point, if any, does it just become a pistol? If (just for the sake of argument) I take a single barrel break action .410 and cut the barrel to 5 or 6 inches and cut the stock off so that just enough to grip it is left, would that be considered a pistol?

In your scenario no, you're making a short barrel shotgun or AOW which is a $200 tax stamp on a BATFE form 1. It was originally manufactured as a shotgun, that's what it is for the lifetime of the firearm.

You can go from pistol to rifle without issue, you cannot do the reverse if the given serial number was ever recorded on a 4473 as a rifle or shotgun.

If it has ever had a shoulder stock on it and has been recorded on a 4473 as a rifle or a shotgun then you have to get a stamped BATFE form 1 to make it into a pistol as technically you'd be making a short barrel shotgun or any other weapon out of a shotgun.

It becomes a pistol in the eyes of BATFE if it was transferred to you as a other firearm (stripped receiver or frame) or a pistol and has never been transferred as a rifle or shotgun and you build a firearm out of it that only has a pistol grip.

This is why if you build AR-15s or AK pistols you have to make sure the virgin receiver has been transferred to you as a pistol on the previous version of the 4473 or other (stripped receiver) for the current version if you intend to make a pistol out of it.

BATFE's stand on firearms is this, it is what it is after it has been transferred on a 4473 or what it is originally manufactured as. You cannot go back without going through the hoops of getting tax stamps except going from pistol to rifle. You also can't take a rifle that's been transferred to you as such on a 4473 then remove the stock and put a short barrel on it to make a pistol. It came from the manufacturer or FFL as a rifle, that's what it is for the lifetime of the firearm.

You also have to be careful when converting an AR-15 pistol into a rifle. You have to put the long barrel on it first before the shoulder stock. Do it the reverse and that receiver is not on a stamped BATFE form 1 or 4, get caught and you have an unregistered short barreled rifle which is up to a decade in camp fed and effectively a permanent loss of your RKBA.

Shotguns are a special case because they are not handguns because of the bore size except for .410 GA. Shotguns are either short barreled or AOWs (any other weapon). I cannot legally possess a short barrel for my Remington 870s in my home until I have a Remington 870 receiver that's on a BATFE form 1 since I have a pair of Remington 870s in my home. Having the parts to make a short barrel rifle/shotgun or a machine gun falls under "constructive possession" and is just as bad as actually possessing the unregistered NFA item. I can have short AR-15 barrels in my home now because I have six virgin AR-15 receivers that are not a pistol or a rifle yet. Since I could be making pistols with those AR-15 receivers, I'm not doing anything illegal by having short AR-15 barrrels in my home. If I had short AR-15 barrels in my home prior to taking possession of my six AR-15 receivers last Thursday I would be in violation of NFA because I have a complete AR-15 in my home that was manufactured as a rifle the only thing I could possibly make with those barrels with the parts on hand is a short barrel rifle so I could have gotten nailed for constructive possession of an unregistered short barrel rifle.

To be 110% legal without any ambiguities if you intend to have firearms that can be easily converted from non-NFA to their NFA short barrel counterparts you should have it on a stamped BATFE form 1 or 4 that way if you do make a mistake and put a short barrel on it before removing the stock it's already legal.

This is also important if you've come across with three hole AK receivers that have a rivet through the hole for the auto sear. BATFE's stand on that is once a machine gun, always a machine gun. If you see one of those early MAK-90 variants don't handle it, just look at it and walk away fast.

This also applies to machine gun parts. I have a complete AR-15 and six stripped lower receivers. I cannot legally possess any M-16 parts in my home unless I have a RDIAS (registered drop in auto sear) or registered lightning link. Those individual registered serialized parts is the actual machine gun. I can have any number of AR-15s with M-16 parts as host firearms to use the RDIAS or registered lightning link in as I'd need an AR-15 with M-16 parts to use it.

I hope I made it clear. When dealing with NFA items you need to understand the legalese of what you can and cannot do and what is construed by BATFE as 'constructive possession."