OC incident in Battle Creek..

[Sheldon]

Follow the link to the MGO web site hot toppic here is

Man, do we need to get the B.C. police educated.

Went for an ice cream with the wife and friends on the motorcycles when I get pulled over for open carry. Next thing you know, there's 4 cars, 1 motorcycle cop, 7 cops altogther. Get the same rehetoric. I stopped you because you have a gun. Me - so? Him: It's illegal. Here we go again. I even had my trifold on gun laws with me. He looks at it and says I could have just made this up. Wanted to know where my 'CCW' was. I say, 'you mean CPL?' He says no, CCW. Those are two different things. I just laugh. Couldn't believe this *****. I'm not free to go he says and I say that I'm under arrest. He says no. I say, yes I am if I'm free to go. Finally another cop shows up, tells me I'm acting like John Wayne for carrying and that B.C. will stop anyone who does so. I get badge numbers, calling cards, etc. and told him I would be down next week to file a complaint. All this for an ice cream.

My responce:
NOW WAIT ONE COTTON PICKING MINUTE!!! We went though this during one of the TEA party's not too (last year) long ago!!!
What happened then was a BCPD officer tried to strong arm a guy that was OC at the event, and they took the city to task.
Received a apology, promise of training for their officers, Further the city counsel was informed and fully aware of the entire affair, the City attorney was involved, and they were threatened with legal action if they ever offended again...
So guess what you have grounds to sue!!!

Originally Posted by zigziggityzoo
I say show me the definition of Vehicle. You are prohibited from carry in a vehicle. The CPL allows carry in a vehicle whether concealed or otherwise.

My responce:
Key and operational word here is IN... you get IN a car, you get IN a truck, you get IN the bus....

However and proper English language usage here, You get ON an ATV, you get ON a bicycle, you get ON the snowmobile, and you get ON a Motorcycle, you are not in an compartment hence you are OC by every definition of the word you can possibly find in any book legal or otherwise....

That is unless you are a Bill Clinton type trying to figure out what the definition of IS, IS....

Originally Posted by Tom S.
That's her opinion, and we all know about opinions. Did you happen to mention the previous incident and the possibility of a lawsuit?

My responce:
+1 Opinions are just that and if ignored have the nasty habit of being enforced and prosecuted as law.... They are not law and hence not enforceable and have tipped the hat of our new COP...

[Glockster20]

You can be "detained" and not be "under arrest" while an investigation is being conducted by LEO's. Under these circumstances, you are not "free" to go. The officers in this situation were obviously unaware of the laws in MI or they just don't care. There are a lot of officers that are under the opinion that civi's shouldn't be carrying openly. If OC is legal, then there should be a lawsuit against the city of BC in this case.

[Sheldon]

OC is legal, but BC PD is controlled by and anti the OC group will be at tonights city counsel meeting, as they have a written agreement with the city WRT an incident that happened last year at the TEA party where an individual that was OC was strong armed by a officer, in that agreement they agree not to sue if the city will train their officers on the OC rules, this was signed by the city attorney, and acknowledged by the city counsel....
Yes they have grounds.......

[ricbak]

BC's history on CC/OC issues does go back a while. .. Thank You Sir

[emt232004]

You can be "detained" and not be "under arrest" while an investigation is being conducted by LEO's. Under these circumstances, you are not "free" to go. The officers in this situation were obviously unaware of the laws in MI or they just don't care. There are a lot of officers that are under the opinion that civi's shouldn't be carrying openly. If OC is legal, then there should be a lawsuit against the city of BC in this case.

Here in MI you cannot be detained Just for carrying a gun. They have to have resonable cause that you are commiting a crime or breaking another law but not just for carrying.

[Dragon]

The LEO cannot detain a person or demand an ID if said person is open carring in Mich, according to what I have found in my research on OC. It should be understood that ones attitude with the Officer doing his job, is going to dictate how the incident turns out. I consider myself on the positive side of the law, and so is the LEO, even though many of them do not seem to know the laws in Michigan, reguarding ccw or open carry. I have obtained my ccw and most of the time I carry concealed, But when I'm on a local river fishing in a rowboat for catfish I carry open. My fishing partner and I were fishing the log jams on the river and anchored above one of the jams to fish. there is a house on the bank in that location about 20 feet up a steep bank. A lady working in the yard asked if we were catching anything, we said yes and continued fishing. The next weekend we stopped in the same logjam and again she was there, she said boy its weird seeing someone in my backyard. The next week she is out again and gets down right nasty and says I moved here to get away from this #!%^, We moved on and before we went out the next weekend I called the DNR. The DNR officer I talked to said the river belongs to the people of Michigan and if I have any more problems with her harassment call him. The next weekend we worked our way up the river fishing all the logjams, when we got to the witches area and started fishing we heard two guys talking up by the house and one came to the top of the hill and started shooting at the bow of our boat. I called 911 and when I was reporting the incident the guy loaded another clip and the 911 operator heard the second barrage of his gun. She told us to leave the area, which we did, and I immediatrely called the DNR officer,He was close by and investigated, but it was our word against the shooter. We didn't fish there for 2 years, but studied up on the law and found we could open carry in Mich. Now we open carry on the boat and hope these people think twice before firing any weapons in our direction, when we are trying to enjoy a day on a river that belongs to all the sportsmen of Mich.

[Sheldon]

The LEO cannot detain a person or demand an ID if said person is open carring in Mich, according to what I have found in my research on OC. It should be understood that ones attitude with the Officer doing his job, is going to dictate how the incident turns out. I consider myself on the positive side of the law, and so is the LEO, even though many of them do not seem to know the laws in Michigan, reguarding ccw or open carry. I have obtained my ccw and most of the time I carry concealed, But when I'm on a local river fishing in a rowboat for catfish I carry open. My fishing partner and I were fishing the log jams on the river and anchored above one of the jams to fish. there is a house on the bank in that location about 20 feet up a steep bank. A lady working in the yard asked if we were catching anything, we said yes and continued fishing. The next weekend we stopped in the same logjam and again she was there, she said boy its weird seeing someone in my backyard. The next week she is out again and gets down right nasty and says I moved here to get away from this #!%^, We moved on and before we went out the next weekend I called the DNR. The DNR officer I talked to said the river belongs to the people of Michigan and if I have any more problems with her harassment call him. The next weekend we worked our way up the river fishing all the logjams, when we got to the witches area and started fishing we heard two guys talking up by the house and one came to the top of the hill and started shooting at the bow of our boat. I called 911 and when I was reporting the incident the guy loaded another clip and the 911 operator heard the second barrage of his gun. She told us to leave the area, which we did, and I immediatrely called the DNR officer,He was close by and investigated, but it was our word against the shooter. We didn't fish there for 2 years, but studied up on the law and found we could open carry in Mich. Now we open carry on the boat and hope these people think twice before firing any weapons in our direction, when we are trying to enjoy a day on a river that belongs to all the sportsmen of Mich.

Actually you had the witness that was with you, and most cell phones today can do video and are great to submit as evidence on your behalf..... Bottom line shoot at me and expect a return barage.....

[Snowman1911]

You can be "detained" and not be "under arrest" while an investigation is being conducted by LEO's. Under these circumstances, you are not "free" to go. The officers in this situation were obviously unaware of the laws in MI or they just don't care. There are a lot of officers that are under the opinion that civi's shouldn't be carrying openly. If OC is legal, then there should be a lawsuit against the city of BC in this case.

I find it to be a sad statement that so many MI leo's are so institutionally attached to their attitude of civilians shouldn't be able to carry. It is like their egos are invested in their sole right to carry. I was hassled while in MI visiting my grandmother by Flint PD when I got stopped on Longway and Dort Hwy. I had a bad tail light...no surprise...I was in a rental wreck from Bishop. Anyway, Officer Friendly comes up, and I let him know I am carrying, and that I am an officer from AZ, and give him all my creds. Man, you'd have thought I dropped an A-bomb on Fuji Dirty Massage Parlor!

I am a 22 year veteran police officer in AZ. People carrying here is just no big deal. Never has been. Be courteous and let us know, and be on your way.

[Sheldon]

Lots of un informed officers in this state.......

[PDinDetroit]

Lots of un informed officers in this state.......

Going to be more informed now...

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf