Open carry legal in Michigan

[skram]

Great information! Thanks alot!

[Sheldon]

and sent him thiis...

I ran into this MI Ag opinion #7097. Opinion #7097 on one of the pro 2A forums I haunt, although it has specific language that originally answers a question pertaining to "Private Investigators" language in the text is not specific on this point, therefore it would seem to indicate that certain areas that are often referred as Criminal Empowerment Zones, do not apply to those who are licensed by the State of Michigan to carry a Concealed Weapon.

This has apparently been the interpretation by some State Police offices to permit I quote: “…My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison....According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder....that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter…” Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"

Below is a partial quote of that opinion...



(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

b) A peace officer.

c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity. [Emphasis added.]

By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition "[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon." Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.

And he replied...

Jim,

Good question!

The opinion you cite does not specifically or clearly address the "open carry" issue. But your reading of the opinion and the two statutes could easily be correct. It appears to be a "gap" or undefined area in the law. Perhaps the Senator could ask a more specific question of the Attorney General to get a clear answer.

Have a great weekend. Thanks.

MCL 750.234d prohibits the possession of any weapon in the listed area
--

Mr. John A. Hallacy
Prosecuting Attorney

Criminal Empowerment zones have been a pain in the backside of all of us who have jumped through the hoops here in Michigan, and this looks as though it could easly be what we have been looking for.

[skram]

Could you translate that for me? I am trying my best to understand.

[Sheldon]

Short version, it looks like the State Police opinion is correct.

[venator]

Originally Posted by Sheldon

Short version, it looks like the State Police opinion is correct.

SO you asked a prosecutor if this info was correct, but you didn't take the word of the representative of the entire State Police Department. Nice to check it out, but come on. A Cooley law instructor told me he has gotten calls from former students that are now prosecutors, on what to charge people for open carrying, and he tells them they can't charge anything, it's legal. My point is, even some prosecutors are unaware of what the law is, and they have the power to charge people with prosecution. While it's nice to hear what local prosecutors would do, or what their opinions are, remember they may be wrong.

In the matter that you questioned I had three citations to authority AG, MSP, and a senator, all saying the same thing, good to add one more that's in agreement (sarcasm).

[Sheldon]

Originally Posted by venator

SO you asked a prosecutor if this info was correct, but you didn't take the word of the representative of the entire State Police Department. Nice to check it out, but come on. A Cooley law instructor told me he has gotten calls from former students that are now prosecutors, on what to charge people for open carrying, and he tell them they can't charge anything it's legal. My point is, even some prosecutors are unaware of what the law is, and they have the power to charge people with prosecution. While it's nice to hear what local prosecutors would do, or what their opinions are, remember they may be wrong.

In the matter that you questioned I had three citations to authority AG, MSP, and a senator, all saying the same thing, good to add one more that's in agreement (sarcasm).

Yep I do not trust any source I did not personally check out, none of your sources can make, decide, or define law, they can only have opinions, just as my source is but one more opinion, and that is not law.

A very long time ago I found out through the school of hard knocks that never and I mean never let police decide how a law is interpreted, even if it is to your advantage. You need something written in stone an to get that we must go higher than the State Senator that asked a " Michigan State Police legislative liaison" about a "AG" opinion that is answering a question WRT a PI. After all the opinion is only as good as the "he said, she said" in a court of law.

Until we have it in writing as a legal opinion by the current AG as meaning just that does indeed apply as we read it across the board. Until then it is only something your lawyer can use as a argument in a court of law while he tries to keep you out of jail. Then it is up to some possibly anti judge to miss interpret and this could get real expensive for some poor soul in the end.

Now is the time to be asking these questions as we have a pro AG, and a pro legislature, as Mike is contemplating running against Grandstand in the next state cycle.

[venator]

Originally Posted by Sheldon

Yep I do not trust any source I did not personally check out, none of your sources can make, decide, or define law, they can only have opinions, just as my source is but one more opinion, and that is not law.

A very long time ago I found out through the school of hard knocks that never and I mean never let police decide how a law is interpreted, even if it is to your advantage. You need something written in stone an to get that we must go higher than the " Michigan State Police legislative liaison" which is who this all boils down to. After all their opinion is only as good as the "he said, she said" in a court of law.

Until we have it in writing as a legal opinion by the current AG as meaning just that does indeed apply as we read it across the board. Until then it is only something your lawyer can use as a argument in a court of law while he tries to keep you out of jail. Then it is up to some possibly anti judge to miss interpret and this could get real expensive for some poor soul in the end.

Now is the time to be asking these questions as we have a pro AG, and a pro legislature, as Mike is contemplating running against Grandstand in the next state cycle.

While all of these opinions are just that, they would be taken into account and hold weight with a prosecutor that is deciding to charge you with a crime. The prosecutor wants cases he can win. They don't like to prosecute weak cases that wastes time and money. Also I would request a jury trial and point out that I was conducting my activity based on the AG's and the MSP and a state legislator's interpretation of the law. This all goes to show I tried to obey the law and made a very good effort to find out what is legal. In the juries mind this would be very helpful in getting a not guilty verdict. Again, you always take a chance in court, there is no justice only decisions.

[Sheldon]

I would hope it would be your lawyer and and not yourself doing the arguing in court, there is an old saying "He who has himself for a lawyer has a fool for a lawyer".

Yes the opinion may carry some weight but in a county such as say Wayne, Sometimes they just flat out do not care if it is a winnable case or not, but one that fit's their personal political agenda (AKA harass the gun owner) and puts them in the lime light it good enough for them, 6 months and $50,000.00 later in legal fees you are free. With an official written in Stone decision you could sue for harassment and damages thus recoup your losses.

Does any one else here remember when we got our shall issue law, and Wayne decided to write in no Cary zones despite the fact that state law flat out stated they reserved that right. It took close to a year in court and I forget how much in legal fees to win.

You are preaching to the choir here son but try and heed the advice of those old farts that have been there and done that, after all you can never have too much ammo in a fight, regardless of the kind of.

[venator]

Originally Posted by Sheldon

I would hope it would be your lawyer and and not yourself doing the arguing in court, there is an old saying "He who has himself for a lawyer has a fool for a lawyer".

Yes the opinion may carry some weight but in a county such as say Wayne where they basically would not care if they can win or not but just harass a gun owner, 6 months and $50,000.00 later in legal fees you are free. With an official written in Stone decision you could sue for harassment and damages thus recoup your losses.

You are preaching to the choir here son but try and heed the advice of those old farts that have been there and done that, after all you can never have too much ammo in a fight, regardless of the kind of.

Well we have people that OC in Wayne county often, they are aware that OC is legal. I would never represent myself in a court of law. And in regards to OLD, I'm just a couple years younger than you are, I have been there and done some too. And if you read my entire post, you take a chance in court...no justice just decisions.

[venator]

I have added a general information page with lots of stuff on open carry in Michigan at
MICHIGAN OPEN CARRY INFO HERE - Michigan - Stories From The States - OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum

Did a count of the cities that our members have OCed in, many in large urban areas. The myth that open carry only occurs in the “sticks” is being dispelled daily.

Allen Park
Alpena
Battle Creek
Bath
Bay City
Beulah
Big Rapids
Burton
Chesaning
Clio
Corrunna
Dearborn
Dearborn Heights
East Lansing
Fenton
Flint
Flushing
Fowlerville
Frankenmuth
Garden City
Grand Blanc
Grand Rapids
Grandville
Haslett
Kalamazoo
Lake City
Lansing
Leslie
Livonia
Midland
Mt. Morris
Okemos
Owosso
Paw Paw
Redford
Romulus
Saint Charles
Sault Sainte Marie
Saginaw
Standale
Traverse City
Westland