Veterans and Utah CCW

[Weber]

I received my FL CCW permit yesterday!

[Rob54]

Nah it don't really help but if you we other than honoably discharged they frown a bit and make you explain why. It won't aply to most of us.

[Glock Fan]

I find it just a little insulting that proof of military training is not accepted by civilian authorities as demonstrating competence. I was trained to maintain and repair everything from a 1911 to a 5" cannon, and to train the crews that manned them. When I took the class for my Oregon CHL I took a individual class and the guy looked at my DD214 and asked a few questions and laughed. He said we had to watch the required videos and then admitted I was more than qualified. He went through the required material,,but agreed it was kinda dumb. I understand and agree that proof of competency is vital.....but if the military says you are qualified..shouldn't that be good enough???

There are a lot of Military Veterans who are highly trained and competent to handle firearms. Then there is the flip side where there are job specialties that don't require firearms use, so service members in those job specialties haven't handled a firearm since basic training (I know several of them). It's due to this wide range of skill levels that I personally feel that everyone wanting a carry permit/license should be at minimum have their skill level evaluated. We don't need a bunch of new gun owners simply tossing a revolver into their bag and expecting it to be ok.

I've been a UT CFP instructor since '09, so approximately a year and a half. In that time frame, I've seen my fair share of students. Many were military, and some were former LE (not qualified under LEOSA). You would be surprised at the number of folks who you would expect to know basic firearms safety violated a large number of basic firearms safety rules.

As dull and mundane as it seems, firearms safety training is a crucial part of a successful CC permit/license program.




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[Rob54]

I have to agree with the training aspect as there are many different aspects of military training like you stated. But what the Utah course lacks is a test on range time. To show you have learned the class as taught. I had more extensive training when I was 12 to gain my NRA certification than I did for my Utah CCW. I am a Veteran as a Navy corpsman back in 72-75. And yes I did have extensive firearm training in the military as well. But that's all water under he bridge. I do believe that range test should be required if a NRA course has not been completed or a Recent military certification of the same type. I have seen people with CCWs point their weapons in all kinds of dangerous positions. Nothing beats experience...

[ColeSeattle]

While I do see Glock Fan's point, and have myself seen sad weapons handling by military and combat Veterans; I have to point out Utah is ignoring state law, by not accepting any comparable military training.
Utah Code 53-5-704(7)(B) states "An applicant may satisfy the general familiarity requirement of Subsection (7)(a) by one of the following:" ...
(iii) "equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in an organized shooting competition, law enforcement, or military service."

The folks behind the desk at B.C.I. in Salt Lake say they will not accept any form of military equivalent training. I believe they should at least review individuals’ qualifications, or allow instructors to wave the mandatory class.
I was Army CI and Air Force Security Forces and have over ten years honorable service, including two year long deployments to Iraq. I think, I may have been trained, at some point, to safely carry and discharge a firearm.

[Glock Fan]

While I do see Glock Fan's point, and have myself seen sad weapons handling by military and combat Veterans; I have to point out Utah is ignoring state law, by not accepting any comparable military training.
Utah Code 53-5-704(7)(B) states "An applicant may satisfy the general familiarity requirement of Subsection (7)(a) by one of the following:" ...
(iii) "equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in an organized shooting competition, law enforcement, or military service."

The folks behind the desk at B.C.I. in Salt Lake say they will not accept any form of military equivalent training. I believe they should at least review individuals’ qualifications, or allow instructors to wave the mandatory class.
I was Army CI and Air Force Security Forces and have over ten years honorable service, including two year long deployments to Iraq. I think, I may have been trained, at some point, to safely carry and discharge a firearm.

I do agree that there should be some leeway in considering military experience and training for the firearms handling aspect of getting a UT CFP. I'm thinking that BCI wants everyone to take the class for the UT laws section. From talking to other UT CFP instructors, we've agreed that though many have the concept of "safe handling" down, there are others who violate the law with regard to CC in the state of UT. Though the violations are minor, they are serious enough that local LE will get involved and in some cases, CFP revoked.

I wouldn't want to see anyone hooked up by LE because I didn't train them properly. I do know that BCI will pull instructor creds if they find instructors not teaching the classes properly. I'm not willing to risk my creds because I think some guy should get a pass because he's a highly skilled and trained veteran. Until BCI tells me that I'm authorized to make changes to the training curriculum or process, I will do as I was instructed when I took the instructor training.



gf

[maybejim]

I find it just a little insulting that proof of military training is not accepted by civilian authorities as demonstrating competence. I was trained to maintain and repair everything from a 1911 to a 5" cannon, and to train the crews that manned them. When I took the class for my Oregon CHL I took a individual class and the guy looked at my DD214 and asked a few questions and laughed. He said we had to watch the required videos and then admitted I was more than qualified. He went through the required material,,but agreed it was kinda dumb. I understand and agree that proof of competency is vital.....but if the military says you are qualified..shouldn't that be good enough???

When I got Oregon non-resident) last year all I had to do was submit a "certificate" for a class I had taken in Kalifornia. It was virtually nothing.

[DamonFinch]

The Utah course is not only designed to inform you on safety with a firearm, the purpose of the course is to instruct on the legal aspects of Utah law in comparison to other states. My time in the military has given my a great deal of training, however the biggest lesson that I learned was that there is always a need for more knowledge. What do you have to lose by sitting in a class for four hours. We spend more time watching TV.