Greetings from Washington!

[wuzfuz]

I just moved to Washington from Arizona, due to health problems and a desire to see our new granddaughter grow up. I was formerly a deputy sheriff and corporal for the Pinal County Sheriff's Dept. and a CSO at Arizona State Prison. I ended up getting disabled by a trespasser at the business where I was the Lead Security Supervisor. It turned out to be a former Marine jacked up on PCP and I got my left leg busted at the knee, so know I have a prosthetic knee joint.

I would like to get some input on a question I have. In Arizona, the CCW permit does not even have the word firearm on it anywhere. I asked my CCW instructor about sword canes, as I have to use a cane or walker to get around. I am a member of the Society for Creative Anachronism, so I have had some experience in sword fighting techniques. He informed me that sword canes were covered by the CCW permit.

There is apparently a disagreement among LEOs in Arizona concerning the legality of sword canes. Arizona law on concealed weapons states that bladed weapons, if in a scabbard designed to hold the blade are not illegal as it is the same as carrying a pistol in a holster. Others believe that a sword cane is illegal and no one should be allowed to have one. Washington permits say Concealed Pistol permit, so would this cover a sword cane?? I am concerned because my disability makes me a prime target for those inclined to attack people and rob them. How does everyone feel?

[Stiofan]

Washington does indeed say pistol. Here is the staute. RCW 9.41.070: Concealed pistol license ? Application ? Fee ? Renewal.

Most of us with this permit read it conservatively and assume it applies only to firearms. Seattle does have it's own knife regulations, anything with blades longer than 3 1/2 inches is prohibited open or concealed out of your home. The rest of the state simply has a prohibition against carrying anything dangerous. Best advice I can give is anything with a blade of less than 3.5 inches is probably ok everywhere and in many rural areas you probably won't even be bothered.

Here's Seattle's statue http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scrip...2A.14.080.HEAD.

Here's their definition of a danerous knife http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scrip...2A.14.010.HEAD.

Since Seattle is claiming to restrict knives but not firearms for those with a permit, logic says they view the permit only applying to guns.

By the way, welcome to the PNW from a neighbor in Idaho.

[MufDady]

Hello, and Welcome from the SC shore.

[HK4U]

Welcome from Texas. Once upon a time deputy also. I don't know the answer to your question but there are a lot of knowledgeable folks here so I feel sure someone will be able to help.

[kwo51]

Hellow from florida

[Red Hat]

Welcome from SC, we're glad to have you aboard!

[KenS]

Hello from another Washingtonian.
As others have pointed out, the permit does say pistol on it. While I was at our Sheriffs office inquired about the change from concealed weapons permit to concealed pistol permit. The officer on duty explained that many people had used the permit to carry knives and martial arts weapons, so it was changed. I personally don't see where it's more dangerous to carry a knife than it is to carry a pistol. I'd sure like to learn the logic behind that one.
Ken.

[Canis-Lupus]

Greetings wuzfuz from Spokane, WA.
I posted this a while back, it is still valid and there has been a price increase from my 1st post of this sword-cane system. I uploaded 2 pictures of this below, 1 closed and one open and ready to use. I hope you find them useful. I use a cane to ambulate c/o a bone-grinding left knee (Degenerative Joint Disease/no bursa/cushion left between the joint) problem, too much time humping with the infantry I guess. What I use is a bit more than your average walking-stick. This URL spells it out:
Cold Steel Knives: Cold Steel Sword Cane, Heavy Duty, CS-88SCFD
'Heavy Duty Cold Steel Sword Cane' that features a 24 1/4" blade made of 1055 carbon steel, 5.5mm thick, with one long cutting edge, a strong sharp point and a fully sharpened top swedge. The partial crook grip of this sword cane is made of Grivory ©. The shaft, made of heat treated black aluminum, 2mm thick, has a thick rubber ferrule for excellent traction, and can be used as a weak hand parrying tool or an emergency bludgeon. The Heavy Duty Cold Steel Sword Cane has an overall length of 38 5/8" and weighs 37.4 ounces. $83.97 ea. I bought 2: 1 for at home for walking around my neighborhood needs/exercise, and 1 for inside my car for out & about use. Sorry, no shipments, use or even ownership of this item to or in: CA/MA/WI/NY or DC. Comes UPS about 10 working days after placing an order over the phone or online. Please check with your local laws before you assume what a vendor says is what a local LEO will echo! King County may be WA but it is not eastern WA or Spokane, much more strict rules and Alpha-male/female cops. About 6 months back I showed it to a local LEO inside my local police station for one reason only; I needed to know if it was legal and could not find out the answer on RCW and sword carry sites. Very iffy about it all comes down to smart safe non brandishing walking around playing Zorro idiot mind-set that I left behind me, if I even ever had one. I walked into his office through a metal detector [BEEP!] and told him what I had and why I was there, he said go ahead and show me what you have. My 1st question was if this was legal and if not to allow me to 'amnesty' surrender it to him without charges being filed against me. Into the lions den with a nice raw steak and dare the lion not to eat my arm off. He agreed so I slowly showed him the sword-cane and let him handle it, CC camera on me the whole time and I knew it. Yes it was a gamble, but I would rather surrender an illegal weapon to 5-OH in the safety of their HQ's & walk away a free man minus an item that was not legal to even have to the right folks, than have a LEO find me carrying one out in a public place or during a vehicle stop and cuff-me with very bad consequences to follow. He told me he wished more law-abiding citizens had the temerity to just ask inside an environment he totally controlled and I didn't about their kit, even gave me his business card (which I keep in my wallet behind my CC permit) and told me to tell any local LEO with questions about it's legality to give him (or his watch CDR) a call and they would clear me on the spot to go my way unhindered and in good standing assuming I hadn't had to use it and then fill out a long report back at LEO base that goes with any combative situation involving injury and weapons. I told him where I lived and gave him my business card too, a very pleasant encounter with a very sharp younger police officer. He examined it and gave it back to me smiling with the standard warning about only unsheathing it if I needed it to protect my life, and told me he hadn't seen a better model in his 10 years on the job. Closed it looks and acts just like a regular walking stick and that is 99.99999% of what I need it for is good left leg support, not a swash-buckling Johnny Depp/Pirates of Spokane bragging anything! It is black hard dull finished metal, it has a sturdy round black rubber tip and good balance, a tad heavy and not for use if you ain't at least 5' 9" in height or it's just too big/tall and not a good walking assist device if U have to reach up for leg support, will do more harm to the leg than good! If you are a 5' 2" person, it's just a fancy show & tell weapon for amusing your M8's in private at home. Would cost much more than it is worth to have it re-tooled down to your optimal use as a walking stick if you are not at least 5', 6" tall. Only comes in one size. It's ergonomic weight bearing partial crook grip L-handle that extends into the blade haft top just far enough to allow my grip to move from L-handled awkward hold, not a very effective way to use it, to a wrap my hand around a 6" long x 1" diameter round haft (just below the handle) that makes for what a normal foil/sword carry 'engarde' stance would be for cut, thrust, parry and counter classical fencing moves/forms. I took fencing as an athletic elective a long time ago, I am no expert nor a novice, but this extends my 'safe zone' by 3 feet in a 360' safe zone, it gives me a very effective cutting/stabbing or slashing weapon and a baton/parry all rolled into one unit hidden in plain sight legal to help me get about augment. It is mean enough looking when unsheathed that even someone wielding a 12" Bowie is going to know he is out-matched, blade for blade. No magic buttons or release mechanisms, no safeties, the sword is held flush with the handle by the 2 round rubber (5mm wide) O-rings only. It is built well enough that even after a few hunderd draws and practice sessions it would never become loose and just drop-off during normal walking, very embarrassing/now illegal brandishing and a norm with those $20 poorly made in China bamboo or (Bud-K junk sword sticks) rattan curved head sword sticks that are for show not much else. Got 2 of those and I could break the cheap metal sword end off with a snap, not something I want to trust my life to! With one firm pull it silently & quickly slides open past two rubber O-ring retainers & produces a fine double edge 8" (razor sharp both sides) pointed tip, with 21" of just as sharp cutting edge on the handle side of the sword, for slashing moves. One heck of a professional sharpened sword made to look like an expensive walking stick. The heavy (aircraft specs tooling/metals) thick tubular aluminum base is perfect for weak-hand parry, or for use as a baton pure, or both in synchronous motion if you know two handed sword moves. I like the idea of "minimal force required to end a confrontation" in a situation that can be resolved without the cutting edges of steel than less lethal but still sturdy enough to knock most out cold with a head shot baton blow(s). Make no mistake this is a concealed carry weapon but one you do not need a permit to own or carry or even use if for personal protection only reasons or just augments to normal impaired gait stride.
I can deploy it in 3 seconds with about 5-7 pounds of pull required to separate the 2 parts, which is about as fast as I can draw, point & shoot my Springfield XD-9 or primary CCW. Same rules that go with a CC pistol DO apply to this sword cane even if it needs no CCW permit in many parts of WA, and same no-carry zones I dare not take this where I revert back to a normal no surprises inside tubular aluminum walking stick, $25 in most supermarket pharmacy sections. I do carry a clip-on 3" folding pocket knife but that is more for opening mail or cutting strings off frayed clothes than any serious back-up weapon. In WA automatic, out-the-front (OTF) or 'lock-back' knives of any length are forbidden, as are switch-blades, butterflies and spring-assisted pop-outs. Folders that lock and are less than 3.25" (blade length) are legal clipped inside pocket carry if not used to act the fool or in any weapons free areas. This fits my discreet needs for a very sturdy carry in plain sight (sheathed) walking cane that I DO need for long walks, in stores and malls, but in 3 seconds it turns me into a non-ballistic don't mess with me card-carrying legit disabled Vet with an equalizer. IMHO if you want something almost as lethal as a gun that equals out your odds maybe even against a pistol packing goon :suicide:then this silent weapon that needs no CC permit and does not get as up close and ugly as a real 1 on 1 knife fights I've had to respond to as 911 many times during my Army medical 911 career, a bloody mess, this adds the element of utter surprise, is cheaper than any decent gun and yet acts as a fine fencing sword that should help save your life if you ever need to use it as a weapon. Or a simple baton that will knock an attacker's lights out but leave him/her alive & not going anywhere with the pointed end poised at perp's throat/heart/family jewels, etc until a LEO arrives. If you do not think this suits your defensive needs and are a pistol packer only, don't go there with this, if you would rather have a 1st use less lethal weapon as your 1st real means of defense that can get real deadly in just one thrust, with a fall-back to a much more lethal one shot/one kill weapon (pistol) then incorporate it into your legal carry load. You will blend in with the crowd a treat. Folks who buy those cobra-head or dragon head adornments stick out, then so do you! Plus the heavy head throws the balance off where this 'L' handle doesn't even. This looks like it came right out of a good ortho-clinic. I use both and if this is ever taken away from me (3 perps working together can do that no big deal ), or turned against me, I have a much more final option which a CC pistol carry (also out of sight) gives me, but I must have a permit for that ballistic weapon. Treat this with the same respect as any pistol, it ain't no toy and even if it don't shoot rounds one stick through the perps body almost anywhere will slow them down, or even kill. Cautious use and "minimal force required to stop attacker" (RCW) will convince them that to rumble with you more means more damage you can and may use to really slow them down until a LEO arrives to take said perp into their custody. Originally posted on a thread for knives a while back, I know it may not jive with what is considered a good blade, but for me this is the 'middle ground' between a nice Buck and a Glock! If you want to add this to your collection of orthopaedic devices or first use concealed-carry very serious weapons this is as good as it gets. Again I warn you that this is one state with one CCW law BUT if you are in King County or the SeaTac area PLEASE double-check every part of this post as Gospel, the laws and LEO's there are not the ones I get along with just fine over here in Spokane and may not let you do what is lawful in Eastern WA! Engarde Monsieur!
Regards,

Canis-Lupus

[wuzfuz]

I thank everyone for the welcome and the input. I especially thank canis for his astute information. I used to have a knob head walking stick that had the two o-ring system. The one I have now unscrews and has about an 18 inch blade. I am afraid I got it from Bud K, but you go with what you have access to. The handle is a dragon that the body is at about a 90 degree angle to the shaft of the cane. I have never had to use it, but I know that some people, you pull out a gun and they laugh. Pull out a sword and they don't know what to do. We had an old guy in Phoenix about a year ago who had two brain-dead jerks pull a home invasion on him, one armed with a .22 rifle. The old man met them with a katana. The unarmed crook kept yelling at the armed one to shoot him, but the gun was jammed. The old guy cut the two baddies three ways, long, deep and continuously. They arrested the BGs when they went to a hospital for what were obviously sword wounds. They are guests of the state of Arizona at the graybar hotel in Florence now for 15 to life, as I understand. I will remember your words, and follow them as they are very to the point and helpful.

[mom of 3 angels]

Welcome wuzfuz, from Utah. Glad to have you join us!