Anyone know of someone caught carrying outside their "sportsman" restriction?

[jeffx]

Has anyone ever heard of someone caught carrying outside of their "sportsman" or similar ridiculous and unconstitutional restriction? What were the repercussions if any?

I have read in many places that there is no criminal penalty for carrying outside of these restrictions made up by our judges, but that they the judges can revoke your permit for being caught for doing such.

[hunter won]

Originally Posted by jeffx

Has anyone ever heard of someone caught carrying outside of their "sportsman" or similar ridiculous and unconstitutional restriction? What were the repercussions if any?

I have read in many places that there is no criminal penalty for carrying outside of these silly restrictions made up by our idiotic judges, but that they the judges can revoke your permit for being caught for doing such.

Your permit is revoked no criminal charge.The judge when he interviewed you makes it perfectly clear that it is restricted for target/hunting only.Most every county in New York places restrictions on your permit.

[jeffx]

Here is the case law that determined that it is not a crime to carry outside of your restrictions, they are only considered "administrative" restrictions and the judge can suspend or revoke your license, IF he finds out about it:

PEOPLE STATE NEW YORK v. LINCOLN PARKER (09/02/77)
PEOPLE STATE NEW YORK v. LINCOLN PARKER (10/30/79)
PEOPLE STATE NEW YORK v. LINCOLN PARKER (02/10/81)

Also, see the NY State Police website:

Pistol Permits FAQs

Q - What section of the Penal Law authorizes the placing of restrictions on pistol permits by the issuing authority?

The Penal Law does not specifically authorize the placing of restrictions on pistol permits. However, court decisions have consistently supported the ability of licensing officials to impose these restrictions. Such an imposition is an administrative function of the licensing officer.

Licensees in violation of these restrictions would therefore not be subject to criminal prosecution but would face action being taken by the court of issuance in the form of suspension or possible revocation of the license.

[pwr2al4]

Originally Posted by jeffx

Here is the case law that determined that it is not a crime to carry outside of your restrictions, they are only considered "administrative" restrictions and the judge can suspend or revoke your license, IF he finds out about it:

PEOPLE STATE NEW YORK v. LINCOLN PARKER (09/02/77)
PEOPLE STATE NEW YORK v. LINCOLN PARKER (10/30/79)
PEOPLE STATE NEW YORK v. LINCOLN PARKER (02/10/81)

Also, see the NY State Police website:

Pistol Permits FAQs

Q - What section of the Penal Law authorizes the placing of restrictions on pistol permits by the issuing authority?

The Penal Law does not specifically authorize the placing of restrictions on pistol permits. However, court decisions have consistently supported the ability of licensing officials to impose these restrictions. Such an imposition is an administrative function of the licensing officer.

Licensees in violation of these restrictions would therefore not be subject to criminal prosecution but would face action being taken by the court of issuance in the form of suspension or possible revocation of the license.

This is the way I understand it to be as well.Although I have no real expierience with a restricted NYS permit Since it has been made clear that you are in no danger of facing any type of prosecution whatsoever since the courts themselves acknowledge that their restrictions are in fact unconstitutional, and therefore meaningless in a court of law, I never understood why those who may have a target restriction, or hunting restrisction dont always keep a small range bag locked in the trunk with the name and business hours of a of a couple conveiently located ranges, both nearby and perhaps upstate somewhere, along with a letter from a buddy talking about getting toghether to go shooting soon.

why not just call a spade a spade, if they NYS leg. is gona openly admit that their restrictions are invalid, why not just dummy up and 'always be on the way either to a local range or the start of a vacation upstate to do some shooting.'
After all whats the worst that could happen.

[mmurtha]

Originally Posted by pwr2al4

This is the way I understand it to be as well.Although I have no real expierience with a restricted NYS permit Since it has been made clear that you are in no danger of facing any type of prosecution whatsoever since the courts themselves acknowledge that their restrictions are in fact unconstitutional, and therefore meaningless in a court of law, I never understood why those who may have a target restriction, or hunting restrisction dont always keep a small range bag locked in the trunk with the name and business hours of a of a couple conveiently located ranges, both nearby and perhaps upstate somewhere, along with a letter from a buddy talking about getting toghether to go shooting soon.

why not just call a spade a spade, if they NYS leg. is gona openly admit that their restrictions are invalid, why not just dummy up and 'always be on the way either to a local range or the start of a vacation upstate to do some shooting.'
After all whats the worst that could happen.

Some counties (at least here in Suffolk) prohibit you from making any stops whatsoever when travelling from your house to the range if you have a sportsman endorsement. The reason they prohibited stops is because people were doing exactly what you desribed. I would imagine if you live in a county that doesn't prohibit stops and enough people give the "oh I was just on my way to the range" at 2am, when you clearly weren't, that your county will soon prohibit stops as well.

In addition, although carrying outside the scope of your endorsement is not a crime per se, whether or not you will be charged with a crime is a different story. Depending on the circumstances, you could be arrested and charged with a crime akin to menacing in the 2nd degree. It all depends on how visible your firearm is, and what the circumstances were that alerted the athorities to the fact that you were carrying.

[hunter won]

Originally Posted by mmurtha

Some counties (at least here in Suffolk) prohibit you from making any stops whatsoever when travelling from your house to the range if you have a sportsman endorsement. The reason they prohibited stops is because people were doing exactly what you desribed. I would imagine if you live in a county that doesn't prohibit stops and enough people give the "oh I was just on my way to the range" at 2am, when you clearly weren't, that your county will soon prohibit stops as well.

In addition, although carrying outside the scope of your endorsement is not a crime per se, whether or not you will be charged with a crime is a different story. Depending on the circumstances, you could be arrested and charged with a crime akin to menacing in the 2nd degree. It all depends on how visible your firearm is, and what the circumstances were that alerted the athorities to the fact that you were carrying.

Since there has been cases in Suffolk and other counties throughout the state of subjects carrying a licensed handgun with a Sportman permit/restricted permit.You may be arrested under section 265 of the NYPL if caught with a handgun that isn't properly licensed.Depending on the circumstances how and where you were caught.If caught you can expect that for a minimum of 1 year suspension/revocation.Suffolk county is very strict even with a business endorsement it's only good while your conducting business no carrying after business hours they require a locked box safe and check the business to make sure that you have the safe prior to issuing your permit.Just a very difficult time getting a permit to carry.

[jeffx]

Originally Posted by hunter won

Since there has been cases in Suffolk and other counties throughout the state of subjects carrying a licensed handgun with a Sportman permit/restricted permit.You may be arrested under section 265 of the NYPL if caught with a handgun that isn't properly licensed.

This statement is incorrect, please see the decision handed down in PEOPLE STATE NEW YORK v. LINCOLN PARKER (02/10/81).

Based on this section of the law:
Section 265.20 Exemptions
a. Sections 265.01, 265.02, 265.03, 265.04, 265.05, 265.10, 265.11, 265.12, 265.13, 265.15 and 270.05 shall not apply to:
3. Possession of a pistol or revolver by a person to whom a license therefor has been issued as provided under section 400.00 or 400.01 of this chapter ; provided, that such a license shall not preclude a conviction for the offense defined in subdivision three of section 265.01 of this article.

[Kevins9145]

Possession of a pistol or revolver by a person to whom a license therefor has been issued as provided under section 400.00 or 400.01 of this chapter ; provided, that such a license shall not preclude a conviction for the offense defined in subdivision three of section 265.01 of this article.

Is that English lol? ? ?

[alexmx22]

Originally Posted by hunter won

Your permit is revoked no criminal charge.The judge when he interviewed you makes it perfectly clear that it is restricted for target/hunting only.Most every county in New York places restrictions on your permit.

Dutchess county doen't.

[hunter won]

For everyone that has used a service in the past which has a 24 hour range.It was a popular sales pitch the guy would show his permit, he would point out see it says type next to it is carry.They put a stamp across it that say's TO AND FROM RANGE ONLY but you get around that because your a member of are club . These services no longer say that and explain that you can't use the excuse to carry because you belong to a 24 hour range.Back in the 70's & 80's many people used these services which were just a typing service that refered you to a gun club that had a range.These services made plenty of empty promises and never did anything to get you a carry permit.