Food For Thought

[ronwill]

There has been much shown and said about Obama's religeous statement's. He has said we cling to our religeon and guns. Each day there is an attack on the belief in God and Christmas. I decided to see what our founding fathers, you know the one's who were around during the writing of the Constitution, said. It seems that separation of Church and State didn't mean quite the same to them as it does to the current administration. Here's a few quotes:

John Adams:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

“[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”

Samual Adams:

“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]

John Quincy Adams:

“Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837

Patrick Henry:

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

[rugerfan.64]

AMEN. The founders of this nation were a different sort than what we have in the federal gov't today. They tried to exalt the Father in their time and had a deeper seeing vision for this country. The leaders of today only seem to try to exalt themselves. History has judged the founding fathers of this country. I wonder what history will lay at the feet of the leaders of today 200 years from now. If it takes that long for the Lord to get us out of this mess.

[HK4U]

It amazes me how many people think that the phase or idea "separation of church and state" is in the constitution. Tell people a lie often enough and they will believe it is the truth.

[Wolfling68]

The Seperation of Church and State is one of the founding principles of the Republic. Have a look at the Theocracies of history and tell me you don't think this is a good idea. The firts amendment was written to prevent a theocracy, no the removal from public view all signs of religeon.

However, they, and I, believe religeon provides the essential groundwork for building human character and as a foundation of a moral culture, necessary for a Nation to survive. No society that tries to use the rule of law to keep it together has ever survived. Nations are held together by a common, cultural sense of right an wrong. No legislation can eliminate crime or moral degenration, religeon can.

[ronwill]

Originally Posted by Wolfling68

The Seperation of Church and State is one of the founding principles of the Republic. Have a look at the Theocracies of history and tell me you don't think this is a good idea. The firts amendment was written to prevent a theocracy, no the removal from public view all signs of religeon.

However, they, and I, believe religeon provides the essential groundwork for building human character and as a foundation of a moral culture, necessary for a Nation to survive. No society that tries to use the rule of law to keep it together has ever survived. Nations are held together by a common, cultural sense of right an wrong. No legislation can eliminate crime or moral degenration, religeon can.

I agree with you. Separation of church and state was meant to prevent a government based on religious laws (theocracy). It was not meant to make laws preventing nativity scenes, Christmas trees, the Ten Commandments, etc. from being displayed in public places. We are allowing this to happen though, yes I said we. The majority of Americans simply don't stand against these things and allow the verbal minority to cause the actions. The only way to stop it is for the "silent" majority to become an extremely noisy outspoken group.

[HK4U]

as I have said the phrase is not anywhere in our constitution. It was in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Anna Baptists. The first Amendment was written not to protect us from religion but to protect us to be able to exrercise our God given rights to worship.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The following is a good place to start for those that would like to know something about the Myth of separation of church and state.

WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - The Separation of Church and State

WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - A Godless Constitution?: A Response to Kramnick and Moore

The Myth of the Separation of Church and State American's Founding Fathers: Deists or Christians video by David Barton

[ricbak]

Thanks HK, Good reading.. I'm going to have to save those links.

[ronwill]

Originally Posted by HK4U

as I have said the phrase is not anywhere in our constitution. It was in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Anna Baptists. The first Amendment was written not to protect us from religion but to protect us to be able to exrercise our God given rights to worship.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The following is a good place to start for those that would like to know something about the Myth of separation of church and state.

WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - The Separation of Church and State

WallBuilders - Issues and Articles - A Godless Constitution?: A Response to Kramnick and Moore

The Myth of the Separation of Church and State American's Founding Fathers: Deists or Christians video by David Barton

Was I misleading because I know the Constitution says nothing of separation. I meant it as allowing groups to strip away many Christian traditions. Here's another read:

Separation Of Church And State

[HK4U]

Originally Posted by ronwill

Was I misleading because I know the Constitution says nothing of separation. I meant it as allowing groups to strip away many Christian traditions. Here's another read:

Separation Of Church And State

No Ron I knew what you were saying. Just wanted to reintegrate what most us all ready knew.