Questions about the Bible

[FN1910]

FN, I'm curious about how you understand that particular parable and how it applies to the Iceman's concerns within this thread.

Im reading a book right now that deals with this parable exclusively. I'm getting the impression (I'm not done reading it yet) that of the two groups of people that Jesus was telling the story to, 1)the sinners and tax collectors [represented by the younger brother] and 2)the Pharisees and teachers of the law [represented by the older brother], the story was addressing the Pharisees and teachers. In the Iceman's case the "holier than thou" christians that attempt to spout bible verses at him like it was their job to bring him to faith in Christ.

To quote Timothy Keller, "The targets of this story are not the "wayward sinners" but religious people who do everything the Bible requires. Jesus is pleading not so much with immoral outsiders as with moral insiders. He wants to show them their blindness, narrowness, and self-righteousness, and how these things are destroying both their own souls and the lives of the people around them."

One should not try to debate another into christianity. Additionally, we should watch our intentions spouting off scripture (are we sharing scripture or ramming it down someones throat) in conversations such as these so as not to become arrogant, self righteous, and mean spirited toward unbelievers.

Iceman, I feel your pain and if you ever catch me being self-righteous or arrogant about my faith, please feel free to put me in check. I'll be praying for you.

I could never understand this story and read many many commentaries on it that almost every one reflected the view you shave quoted by Timothy Keller and they never made sense to me. The approach the the Older Son reflects the self-righteous arrogant sinners is the popular approach and I hav even heard him called the bad son and the other the good son. We must look at the older son not as a pharisees but as a child. The older son did not understand what was going on and felt betrayed. The Father assured him that he was doing what was right and that the celebration was not for the son but it was the Father celebrating. It was not the son't party but the Father's party and that he did not forget the older son nor did he prefer the younger son as he said all that I have is yours. As I finally understood this it almost makes me angry to hear people try to use it to justify their own sins. To fully explain this takes much more time than I have right now but would love to continue in some format later.

God celebrates when a sinner returns to the fold but he still loves those who has followed him daily. There is just so much celebrating to go around.

[Alaska444]

FN, I'm curious about how you understand that particular parable and how it applies to the Iceman's concerns within this thread.

Im reading a book right now that deals with this parable exclusively. I'm getting the impression (I'm not done reading it yet) that of the two groups of people that Jesus was telling the story to, 1)the sinners and tax collectors [represented by the younger brother] and 2)the Pharisees and teachers of the law [represented by the older brother], the story was addressing the Pharisees and teachers. In the Iceman's case the "holier than thou" christians that attempt to spout bible verses at him like it was their job to bring him to faith in Christ.

To quote Timothy Keller, "The targets of this story are not the "wayward sinners" but religious people who do everything the Bible requires. Jesus is pleading not so much with immoral outsiders as with moral insiders. He wants to show them their blindness, narrowness, and self-righteousness, and how these things are destroying both their own souls and the lives of the people around them."

One should not try to debate another into christianity. Additionally, we should watch our intentions spouting off scripture (are we sharing scripture or ramming it down someones throat) in conversations such as these so as not to become arrogant, self righteous, and mean spirited toward unbelievers.

Iceman, I feel your pain and if you ever catch me being self-righteous or arrogant about my faith, please feel free to put me in check. I'll be praying for you.

I am not sure where the false impression of using the scriptures and debating the scriptures comes from. It is not the Bible:

Acts 17:1Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

2And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

3Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

4And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

Paul's "manner" or habit was to "reason" or debate from the scriptures. Look at verse 4: "And some of them believed."

All that wish to bow out so be it. I will follow Paul's example who even in the face of stoning and incredible opposition from his enemies didn't stop debating the truth of the scriptures. That didn't stop Paul and it won't stop me because there just might be one out there that will believe from strong reasoning from the scriptures. That is our example from Paul.

Main Entry: reason
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: argue, persuade
Synonyms: bring around, contend, debate, demonstrate, discourse, discuss, dispute, dissuade, establish, expostulate, justify, move, point out, prevail upon, prove, remonstrate, show error of ways, talk into, talk out of, urge, win over
Antonyms: agree, go along

Reasoning Synonyms | Synonyms of Reasoning and Antonyms of Reasoning at Thesaurus.com

[HootmonSccy]

I am not sure where the false impression of using the scriptures and debating the scriptures comes from. It is not the Bible:

[I][B]Acts 17:1Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

2And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
[/url]

Alaska, but paul went to the "synagogue".. It is assumed that the people there know and respect the scriptures. This is different than dealing with someone that does not have this foundation/mindset.

We should use the scriptures, but also remember that it does not mean that much to someone that does not understand that it is the word of God, but rather just a book that is being used to justify YOUR point versus theirs.

[Alaska444]

Alaska, but paul went to the "synagogue".. It is assumed that the people there know and respect the scriptures. This is different than dealing with someone that does not have this foundation/mindset.

We should use the scriptures, but also remember that it does not mean that much to someone that does not understand that it is the word of God, but rather just a book that is being used to justify YOUR point versus theirs.

This is an off topic thread titled Questions about the Bible. I feel quite free to talk about the Bible to anyone that wishes to talk about the Bible here on this thread. In fact, most people that Paul talked to in the synagogue did not respect him and they actively tried to kill him many times over, but that didn't stop Paul from preaching the gospel to anyone, anywhere, anytime. All are free to ignore this thread if they don't want to enter this synagogue so to speak on this thread to ask questions about the Bible. What do you expect from a thread with this title. Thank you for the advice not to talk about the Bible, but I will go by Paul's example for anyone that wishes to poke their head into this thread. Just my opinion. If you don't preach the scriptures, then how shall they learn to be saved? This is as good a place to do it as any for anyone interested enough to click on this thread. If there are no questions about the Bible, then the thread shall go away and I will let it.

Cheers,

[Alaska444]

I could never understand this story and read many many commentaries on it that almost every one reflected the view you shave quoted by Timothy Keller and they never made sense to me. The approach the the Older Son reflects the self-righteous arrogant sinners is the popular approach and I hav even heard him called the bad son and the other the good son. We must look at the older son not as a pharisees but as a child. The older son did not understand what was going on and felt betrayed. The Father assured him that he was doing what was right and that the celebration was not for the son but it was the Father celebrating. It was not the son't party but the Father's party and that he did not forget the older son nor did he prefer the younger son as he said all that I have is yours. As I finally understood this it almost makes me angry to hear people try to use it to justify their own sins. To fully explain this takes much more time than I have right now but would love to continue in some format later.

God celebrates when a sinner returns to the fold but he still loves those who has followed him daily. There is just so much celebrating to go around.

It is a story of the return of a man to his father from his sins. It is the story of the lost sinner that comes to the realization of his sins and asks his father for forgiveness. This is how our heavenly Father looks upon all of those that will seek his forgiveness. We should all be glad when those that were lost are found.

[FN1910]

It is a story of the return of a man to his father from his sins. It is the story of the lost sinner that comes to the realization of his sins and asks his father for forgiveness. This is how our heavenly Father looks upon all of those that will seek his forgiveness. We should all be glad when those that were lost are found.

There are two wonderfully related stories about two totally different sons and two different sets of people. The first part of the parable that you are referencing is about the son that returns to the fold and is very easy to understand. The part about the other son is much more difficult or must be as so many people seem to stumble and make up things to try and explain it. I have even seen it called the story of the good son and the bad son meaing the older brother was the bad son.

The strange thing is I have never heard a preacher try to explain the second son's actions in a sermon. I hear many times people tell about the son coming back into the fold but they usually shy away from the other son's story.

[Alaska444]

There are two wonderfully related stories about two totally different sons and two different sets of people. The first part of the parable that you are referencing is about the son that returns to the fold and is very easy to understand. The part about the other son is much more difficult or must be as so many people seem to stumble and make up things to try and explain it. I have even seen it called the story of the good son and the bad son meaing the older brother was the bad son.

The strange thing is I have never heard a preacher try to explain the second son's actions in a sermon. I hear many times people tell about the son coming back into the fold but they usually shy away from the other son's story.

That is quite true. The second son is the difficult one to sort out in this parable. Perhaps he is the reliable son that has always been faithful but is unforgiving. It is very easy to go to church week after week and forget where we came from before we were saved as well. The story of the gospel is that of forgiveness. Pehaps that is what the father in the parable is trying to teach the faithful son as well.

[Ringo]

I think it's time to teach the full truth of the Gospel, so far we've only discussed HALF of the TRUTH. Love, forgiveness, salvation, Heaven, etc. is one half of the truth. Sin, judgment, damnation, hell, cast into the Lake of Fire for all eternity, etc. is the other half of the TRUTH of the Gospel. Eternity in Heaven or eternity in the Lake of Fire is a choice we must all make, therefor we must present the full truth to be aware of the consequences. Jesus spoke more about HELL than He did about HEAVEN, ever wonder why? Think about it. God Himself became a man to suffer in humiliation and die on a cross, on a hill that He created, and by man who He created, so that we would not have to spend eternity separated from Him in torment for all eternity. Just how terrible is eternity in the Lake of Fire, that God Himself would pay the penalty of death in our place to keep us from going there?

No ear has heard, no eye has seen, nor has it entered into the mind of man, what God has for those who love Him. Think about that, in our wildest imagination we cannot come close to knowing the beauty of Heaven and how absolutely wonderful it will be. The same is true for the Lake of Fire. A hundred trillion years from now, for those in God's Kingdom, we will just be sitting down for breakfast, for in eternity only the first second has passed. Separated from God by their choice, wailing and gnashing their teeth in agony for ever, and ever, and ever, forever, without hope of escape. I've kept this very simple. Whatever state we are in when we die, guilty of our sin, or forgiven of our sin, is the state we are sealed in for all eternity. One single sin not forgiven will keep you out of Heaven. Should you live to old age and then die, get run over by a truck, murdered, die of sickness, or die in your sleep, ONE SECOND after death is too late, forever. The road to HELL is paved with good intentions, preaching and teaching love only is half truth, a half truth is as good as a lie and is not only deceiving, it's deadly. Today is the day of salvation. Let the discussion begin.

[Alaska444]

Alaska, but paul went to the "synagogue".. It is assumed that the people there know and respect the scriptures. This is different than dealing with someone that does not have this foundation/mindset.

We should use the scriptures, but also remember that it does not mean that much to someone that does not understand that it is the word of God, but rather just a book that is being used to justify YOUR point versus theirs.

Dear HootmonSccy, you are right in many ways. Forgive me for carrying over one thought from another thread that was out of context to your comment and thinking it was yours.

God bless

[Alaska444]

I think it's time to teach the full truth of the Gospel, so far we've only discussed HALF of the TRUTH. Love, forgiveness, salvation, Heaven, etc. is one half of the truth. Sin, judgment, damnation, hell, cast into the Lake of Fire for all eternity, etc. is the other half of the TRUTH of the Gospel. Eternity in Heaven or eternity in the Lake of Fire is a choice we must all make, therefor we must present the full truth to be aware of the consequences. Jesus spoke more about HELL than He did about HEAVEN, ever wonder why? Think about it. God Himself became a man to suffer in humiliation and die on a cross, on a hill that He created, and by man who He created, so that we would not have to spend eternity separated from Him in torment for all eternity. Just how terrible is eternity in the Lake of Fire, that God Himself would pay the penalty of death in our place to keep us from going there?

No ear has heard, no eye has seen, nor has it entered into the mind of man, what God has for those who love Him. Think about that, in our wildest imagination we cannot come close to knowing the beauty of Heaven and how absolutely wonderful it will be. The same is true for the Lake of Fire. A hundred trillion years from now, for those in God's Kingdom, we will just be sitting down for breakfast, for in eternity only the first second has passed. Separated from God by their choice, wailing and gnashing their teeth in agony for ever, and ever, and ever, forever, without hope of escape. I've kept this very simple. Whatever state we are in when we die, guilty of our sin, or forgiven of our sin, is the state we are sealed in for all eternity. One single sin not forgiven will keep you out of Heaven. Should you live to old age and then die, get run over by a truck, murdered, die of sickness, or die in your sleep, ONE SECOND after death is too late, forever. The road to HELL is paved with good intentions, preaching and teaching love only is half truth, a half truth is as good as a lie and is not only deceiving, it's deadly. Today is the day of salvation. Let the discussion begin.

The Bible tells us that His words are irritating to the lost, but we are commanded to preach them anyway and let the Holy Spirit sort out from there.

Isaiah 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

8For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.

12For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap [their] hands.