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Is OBAMA the ANTICHRIST? - 12 of 19 characteristics are met!

This is a discussion on Is OBAMA the ANTICHRIST? - 12 of 19 characteristics are met! within the Off-Topic forums, part of the Main Category category; One other point to note after looking over the short synopsis on the Rosenthal theory: According to the Prewrath perspective, ...

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    One other point to note after looking over the short synopsis on the Rosenthal theory:

    According to the Prewrath perspective, the great tribulation begins 3.5 years after the Antichrist "makes a covenant with the many" (Daniel 9:27), in the middle of "Daniel's 70th week." The 70th week is a reference to Daniel 9:24, where each day of the week corresponds to a year (for a total of seven years). After the first 3.5 years, the Antichrist will make himself known with the abomination that causes desolation, and he will reign for 3.5 years (42 months or 1260 days). The latter half of the 3.5 years is characterized by the Antichrist deceiving the world and persecuting the church.

    Revelation Chapter 12 deals with Satan and what he does in the Tribulation, but it is against the Woman with the sun and the moon and the 12 stars:

    1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

    3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

    5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.

    6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days. . .

    13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].

    14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

    15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

    16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

    17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


    Once again, we find another reference to the Rapture with the child of the woman caught up to heaven and then the dragon persecutes the woman, NOT the church.

  2. #22
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    I feel that there are a lot of scriptures that those on either side of the debate could make a case for their belief. that is why when all is said and done I agree with what Mom said and the is the "Pan theory". I say that because I think all to often Christians get all bent our of shape arguing with each other over this issue and it can leave a bad witness to the lost. I may lean toward a post or at least mid trib time frame but our salvation does not hinge on which view one has on this issue. The only difference is because I do think we will be here for a part of it that causes me to take a look at how I am going to prepare where as if I don't think I will be here then I might not do any preparation. Scripture says that no man can buy or sell unless he has the mark, number or name of the beast. It says "let he who hath understand count the number of the beast" which to me means do something to prepare for that time. i.e. Storing up certain items, learning to barter and becoming more self sufficient. Anyway as I have said I am not going to let a difference of opinion on the issue become a bone of contention between me and other believers.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    The Restrainer is the Holy Spirit indwelling every true believer. When "He is taken out of the way" (HE/Restrainer), the true church,which includes every true believer,will go with Him. Paul said, "don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day (Day of the Lord) will not come, and the man of lawlessness revealed, until He who retrains is taken out of the way." Not only is the Restrainer being removed a reference to the Rapture, but also the Day of the Lord is reference to the Rapture. Paul says, "For you yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night". Paul calls the coming of the Lord, which is the Rapture, "the Day of the Lord", and begins the time period (short time period after the Rapture preceding the 7 yr. Tribulation) known as the day of the Lord. Because the Restrainer is the true believing Spirit filled Church, and the anti-Christ cannot be REVEALED until the Restrainer is removed (taken out of the way), it is crystal clear that Christians will not see the anti-Christ. To say otherwise is to call God a liar, is it not?
    I agree that the Holy Spirit is the Restrainer. Take a look at the duties of the "Comforter" who is the Holy Spirit from John:

    John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

    9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

    10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

    11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

    12I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

    13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


    Look at the definition of Reprove, it speaks loudly as to who is the restrainer:

    Main Entry: re·prove
    Pronunciation: ri-'Google Page Rankingüv
    Function: verb
    Inflected Form(s): re·proved; re·prov·ing
    Etymology: Middle English repreven, reproven, from Anglo-French reprover, from Late Latin reprobare to disapprove, condemn, from Latin re- + probare to test, approve -- more at PROVE
    transitive verb
    1 : to scold or correct usually gently or with kindly intent
    2 : to express disapproval of : CENSURE
    3 obsolete : DISPROVE, REFUTE
    4 obsolete : CONVINCE, CONVICT
    intransitive verb : to express rebuke or reproof
    - re·prov·er noun
    - re·prov·ing·ly /-'Google Page Rankingü-vi[ng]-lE/ adverb
    synonyms REPROVE, REBUKE, REPRIMAND, ADMONISH, REPROACH, CHIDE mean to criticize adversely. REPROVE implies an often kindly intent to correct a fault . REBUKE suggests a sharp or stern reproof . REPRIMAND implies a severe, formal, often public or official rebuke . ADMONISH suggests earnest or friendly warning and counsel . REPROACH and CHIDE suggest displeasure or disappointment expressed in mild reproof or scolding .

    Definition of reprove - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    Since the Holy Spirit is taken up away, and since the Holy Spirit resides within the born again believers, what then of the believers? They are taken up in the Rapture and THEN the Antichrist is revealed, the man of sin. One of the duties of the Holy Spirit is to reprove the world and constrain and restrain evil until the time of Jacob's trouble. The restrainer is removed before the Antichrist is revealed which correlates to Revelation 6:1 and the first seal, not the sixth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    I feel that there are a lot of scriptures that those on either side of the debate could make a case for their belief. that is why when all is said and done I agree with what Mom said and the is the "Pan theory". I say that because I think all to often Christians get all bent our of shape arguing with each other over this issue and it can leave a bad witness to the lost. I may lean toward a post or at least mid trib time frame but our salvation does not hinge on which view one has on this issue. The only difference is because I do think we will be here for a part of it that causes me to take a look at how I am going to prepare where as if I don't think I will be here then I might not do any preparation. Scripture says that no man can buy or sell unless he has the mark, number or name of the beast. It says "let he who hath understand count the number of the beast" which to me means do something to prepare for that time. i.e. Storing up certain items, learning to barter and becoming more self sufficient. Anyway as I have said I am not going to let a difference of opinion on the issue become a bone of contention between me and other believers.
    Dear HK, not trying to be contentious, just relating my own personal journey and studies of the rapture. Of a truth, the beginning of sorrows is a time that the Christian believer's will not be excluded and we do need to prepare, but I believe the spiritual preparation will be much more important than that of the worldly things, which are important in their own right, but not as much as the spiritual applications. Take a look at the last warning to those of us living in the last Laodicean church age:

    Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

    15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

    16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

    18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

    19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

    20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

    21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

    22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


    We need to be looking to our Lord and Saviour to be rich in the Spirit and have His righteousness and to be doing the work of the Lord as we patiently await His return.

    Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

    43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

    45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

    46 Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

    47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

    48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

    49And shall begin to smite [his] fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

    50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of,

    51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    I am under no false pretense that my guns will save me in the day they come looking for us, nor shall the food or money we save do anything but prompt them to take it from us. My trust is not in Mr Ruger or any other gun maker, it is in Jesus and Him alone. That is what we need to begin preparing for spiritually so that that day does not catch us unaware.

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    Exclamation Obama may not be the anti-christ...

    But he sure as HELL is Satan's little helper.
    Abortion...check
    guncontrol...check
    dissolution of free speech...check
    corruption...check
    unreasonable taxes...check
    FESTUS
    IN OMNIA PARATUS

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    Quote Originally Posted by HK4U View Post
    The Holy Spirit is one interpretation of what is meant by he will let until he be taken out of the way however it does not specifically say Holy Spirit. I will agree with you that it is clear that Christians will be taken out before the trib is "one view" however I do not agree that it is clear that it is the correct one.

    Is the Pretribulation Rapture Theory Biblical?
    Do you believe in the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Each is a distinct person, 3 in 1. Only God could be the restraining force against evil and the evil one, therefore HE (GOD in the third person of the Holy Trinity, the Holy Spirit) is taken out of the way. God himself isn't taken out of the way, neither is it Jesus. It IS CLEAR that HE is the Holy Spirit, for once again, "Only God could be the Restraining force against evil & the evil one". There is only ONE TRUTH. If not the Holy Spirit, then whom do you say that He that restrains IS? Remember also that in the beginning God said, "let US make man in OUR image, He didn't specifically say Jesus & Holy Spirit, He said, "US". I'm not basing my belief on any "views", God's word is very clear.
    AMERICA...Harmless To It's Enemies - Treacherous To It's Friends

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    Dear HK, not trying to be contentious, just relating my own personal journey and studies of the rapture. Of a truth, the beginning of sorrows is a time that the Christian believer's will not be excluded and we do need to prepare, but I believe the spiritual preparation will be much more important than that of the worldly things, which are important in their own right, but not as much as the spiritual applications. Take a look at the last warning to those of us living in the last Laodicean church age:

    Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

    15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

    16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

    18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

    19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

    20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

    21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

    22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


    We need to be looking to our Lord and Saviour to be rich in the Spirit and have His righteousness and to be doing the work of the Lord as we patiently await His return.

    Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

    43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

    45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

    46 Blessed [is] that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

    47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

    48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

    49And shall begin to smite [his] fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

    50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of,

    51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    I am under no false pretense that my guns will save me in the day they come looking for us, nor shall the food or money we save do anything but prompt them to take it from us. My trust is not in Mr Ruger or any other gun maker, it is in Jesus and Him alone. That is what we need to begin preparing for spiritually so that that day does not catch us unaware.

    I did not mean to infer that you were being contentious but rather that I know that is a possibility between Christians when the subject comes up and I do not want that to happen. We all have our opinions on the subject.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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    Quote Originally Posted by festus View Post
    But he sure as HELL is Satan's little helper.
    Abortion...check
    guncontrol...check
    dissolution of free speech...check
    corruption...check
    unreasonable taxes...check
    +1. I have said before if he is not he will do until the real one comes along.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Do you believe in the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Each is a distinct person, 3 in 1. Only God could be the restraining force against evil and the evil one, therefore HE (GOD in the third person of the Holy Trinity, the Holy Spirit) is taken out of the way. God himself isn't taken out of the way, neither is it Jesus. It IS CLEAR that HE is the Holy Spirit, for once again, "Only God could be the Restraining force against evil & the evil one". There is only ONE TRUTH. If not the Holy Spirit, then whom do you say that He that restrains IS? Remember also that in the beginning God said, "let US make man in OUR image, He didn't specifically say Jesus & Holy Spirit, He said, "US". I'm not basing my belief on any "views", God's word is very clear.

    Ringo I realize that you believe scripture teaches pre trib. As I have said I don't. We will just have to differ on that point as it is doubtful either of us are going to be swayed on the subject.
    By faith Noah,being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear,prepared an ark to the saving of his house;by the which he condemned the world,and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith Heb.11:7

  10. #30
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    Just a little historical note.

    The original Westminster Confession of Faith stated that the Pope is the Anti-Christ (XXV,6). This was eliminated with the adoption of an American version in 1789.
    Curt Lovelace
    Bible believing, gun toting pastor
    Acton, Maine

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