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This is a discussion on For what it's worth within the Off-Topic forums, part of the Main Category category; Originally Posted by ben_p Could you please provide some evidence of this? I am a computer guy (professionally) and one ...

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben_p View Post
    Could you please provide some evidence of this? I am a computer guy (professionally) and one of my hobbies is computer security and I've not heard this before. Making a comment like this without evidence to back it up is irresponsible. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying that without any evidence I'm not buying it.
    Just remember the Casey Anthony case...
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    Ben;

    I've worked some digital forensic cases where we analyzed the activities and computers of the accused. Google, Facebook, Myspace, etc all have a law enforcement guide outlining the procedures for obtaining the data. An adminstrative supeona issued to any ISP will result in the return of all session data on a particular user, email, internal server or IP address. Providers and websites (chat) generally comply without complaint, returning all data on file. Considering the low cost of computer storage many companies keep expansive records. Analysis of the returned data, the hard drives and removable media is performed usin FTK (Forensic Toolkit) or ENCASE Forensics. The findings are then merged and sorted by date/time to create a complete history of the suspect's activities.

    This could be a problem for those who post violent responses on forums such as USA Carry. Should they ever be involved in a shooting, and depending on circumstances, law enforcement may build a case based on repeated statements that one will shoot anyone who messes with them. It goes to their state of mind and character during criminal procedings
    Good information there, thank you!

    It has been easy for me to not post any "want to shoot or kill" posts or any such things 'cause that's the way it is. I do mention from time to time how I'd love to tie Soros or Obamao, Holder, the San Fran Nann to posts so we all could take turns slapping them but that's about it. I find it hard to understand those who would want to get into a life and death struggle with anyone, its beyond my way of thinking.

    Anyway, thanks for the 'puter user data gathering info. Oh, BTW, ever fix a computer problem where the issue was actually a "one-d-10-t" problem? ;-)
    1)"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." -Thomas Jefferson.
    2)"Imagine how gun control might be stomped if GOA or SAF had the (compromising) NRA's 4 million members!" -Me. http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/nraletter.htm

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    I have fixed those 1d10t problems many times :-)

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    BC1 -

    Yes, anything you do in a digital world is recorded. Even when you delete something from your computer it is many times not actually gone, it's just flagged as available. The issue I had with the original comment was that Google captured "every key stroke that you make on your computer". Every search that you send to them is one thing, but every key press on my computer is a whole different question. That would involve them having some code on my system to phone home with that info. If something like that were happening I'm sure I would have heard about it from the people I talk with on a regular basis.

    There are also a lot of people who work on anti-forensics things. As with any security related topic, digital or physical, it is a race between the good guys and the bad guys. Unfortunately the good guys have to do everything right all of the time and the bad guys don't.

    Tucker's Mom -

    I'm sorry but I didn't follow the case that closely to know to what you are referring. I'm guessing it's related to my response to BC1.

    As for the PEBKAC errors, yes, I deal with them on a regular basis.

    Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben_p View Post
    BC1 -

    Yes, anything you do in a digital world is recorded. Even when you delete something from your computer it is many times not actually gone, it's just flagged as available. The issue I had with the original comment was that Google captured "every key stroke that you make on your computer". Every search that you send to them is one thing, but every key press on my computer is a whole different question. That would involve them having some code on my system to phone home with that info. If something like that were happening I'm sure I would have heard about it from the people I talk with on a regular basis.

    There are also a lot of people who work on anti-forensics things. As with any security related topic, digital or physical, it is a race between the good guys and the bad guys. Unfortunately the good guys have to do everything right all of the time and the bad guys don't.

    Tucker's Mom -

    I'm sorry but I didn't follow the case that closely to know to what you are referring. I'm guessing it's related to my response to BC1.

    As for the PEBKAC errors, yes, I deal with them on a regular basis.

    Ben
    Ben, you are correct in that Google can't capture your local keysrokes. But, depending on what you're doing on your own computer (word document? spreadsheet? IM? email?) the results are probably stored on your own system. For example, if you create a word document and then delete it we can absolutely find it. If you load a photo from your camera, burn it to CD and delete it, we can find it. Even initializing your hard drive won't completely dispose of it. That is why we destroy the drives at then end of a digital investigation. We initially create several copies of the hard drive to be examined using a replicator. We then seal the original drive in an evidence bag. All investigative efforts are then made on one of the copies. At the end of the investigation we initialize the drive copies, disassemble them and cut the platters up with a bolt cutter before disposing of them. Once that computer is confiscated most perps are screwed. The average person (or even software developer) can't hide their tracks.

    In industrial espionage cases I've seen keystroke trackers successfully implemented on a victim's (company) computer. This is usually done through some executable code not stopped by a firewall or spyware product. The tracker will transmit the keystroke history by "bouncing" it through several servers.

    Secret squirrel has several advanced products that aren't available commercially to digital examiners or police agencies. These products, used by agencies such as the NSA, can even read the cut up, partial platters to reconstruct information strings.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

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    BC1 -

    Yes, thank you. I'm a geek first and a shooter second (actually just getting back into shooting after years away). While I don't completely understand the technical details of how it's done, I understand it at a base level and know it can be done. I've even done some basic recovery myself but nothing too sophisticated.

    I'll just leave this thread at making random statements not based in fact makes you a radical. Know the facts and be willing to defend them otherwise I will see you as a detriment to whatever side you are on. If I disagree with you but you know the difference between fact and fiction I will at least respect you.

    Ben

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    For lack of a better term I am an IT manager and some of our employees will ask me, "Can you actually read my email?" I tell them yep, but I don't have time to read half od my email and I am sure not wasting my time reading yours unless you give me some reason to. There have been a few times that I have had to do some "research" on an employ's email or such but I really don't have time to mess with that as it is very tedious and time consuming. I tell them please behave because I really hate it when I get a call about so-and-so is on vacation and we need such-and-such and document from their system.

    Remember that if the company owns the computer or pays for the Internet service then they also own the data no matter if it is your personal email or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    Remember that if the company owns the computer or pays for the Internet service then they also own the data no matter if it is your personal email or not.
    Or if you show your titts on webcam.

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    Disregard. My retardo finger put an el-posto in the wrong place-o.
    1)"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." -Thomas Jefferson.
    2)"Imagine how gun control might be stomped if GOA or SAF had the (compromising) NRA's 4 million members!" -Me. http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/nraletter.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    For lack of a better term I am an IT manager and some of our employees will ask me, "Can you actually read my email?" I tell them yep, but I don't have time to read half od my email and I am sure not wasting my time reading yours unless you give me some reason to. There have been a few times that I have had to do some "research" on an employ's email or such but I really don't have time to mess with that as it is very tedious and time consuming. I tell them please behave because I really hate it when I get a call about so-and-so is on vacation and we need such-and-such and document from their system.

    Remember that if the company owns the computer or pays for the Internet service then they also own the data no matter if it is your personal email or not.
    Some companies really watch employee Internet use closesly.

    I once worked a case for a defendant (company V.P) in a civil suit who was accused of emailing trade secrets from the company server to her home computer. She was accused after tendering her resignation, going to work for a competitor in the retail clothing business. The company wanted blood from her. In the end it turned out that the data was sent to her computer by her associate so she could work from home while recovering from a broken leg. Her lawyer and our services came to $30,000 to clear her. The person who made the accusation was actually the person who sent her the information. Funny how that investigation turned the company on it's ear. She was able to recover her expenses in settlement for malicious prosecution.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

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