US soldier refuses to serve in "illegal war"

[ronwill]

I had a "conscientious objector" in my flight when we deployed to Desert Storm. He seemed to think he could make the claim and stay in to perform other duties. Come to find out he was only in for the educational benefits and ended up being discharged. From what I understand, refusal to go is disobeying a lawful order and punishable under the U.C.M.J., you have to file conscientious status before hand. Maybe his new bunk buddies will explain that.

[HK4U]

Originally Posted by ronwill

I had a "conscientious objector" in my flight when we deployed to Desert Storm. He seemed to think he could make the claim and stay in to perform other duties. Come to find out he was only in for the educational benefits and ended up being discharged. From what I understand, refusal to go is disobeying a lawful order and punishable under the U.C.M.J., you have to file conscientious status before hand. Maybe his new bunk buddies will explain that.

There are most likely a lot in the military that joined for the educational benfits. The reality is that there has been very few years of "real peace" over the last 100 years or so. There will always be a war, police action or something that we are involved in, sometimes for good reasons other times the reasons are dubious at best. If you don't want to be sent to fight somewhere, anywhere, you best not join the service Joining and thinking you can avoid "action" is living in a fairy tell world.

[Red Hat]

Originally Posted by NDS

I see you began with "If" so I still wonder what the chances are the military will take this course rather than just divest the service of him. Interesting to see that Leavenworth still contains a military prison. As I said, the impression I've gotten recently is that discipline had changed and prison was a much less likely option.

Thanks for the link--as a lifelong civilian, the workings of the military can appear bewildering to me.

I guarantee you that he will serve time. It may be in a Federal prison in his area if it's less than...If i remember correctly...7 years if more then he will go to Levenworth. Some Post and Bases have facilities that can house prisoners for a few years. The military takes a dim view on deserters, cowards and idiots like him. They will try to get every day in prison they can for him. Discipline is the only thing that holds a military together. If there was no consequence for their action then people would just quit and leave. Any way you look at it he just screwed up his life. A felony conviction and a Dishonorable Discharge will get you a long way today!

[NDS]

Interesting thread. Thanks for the information; I am now better informed than I was before I read your posts.

[toreskha]

The point of having a standing professional military is that they are constantly ready to engage in military activities whenever needed. I could see CO status as a valid consideration during a draft, when the government picks people randomly. However, if you *sign up* for the military, and then play the CO card...that's walking into a situation you know will be trouble, and then having angst over it.

Taxpayers should get their money back from him for the basic training. Also, maybe we should limit CO status to only being effective during a draft. If the military picks you, then you can claim they picked the wrong person. If you pick the military, then that's your problem.

[FN1910]

Originally Posted by toreskha

I'm so tired of hearing about the supposed "illegality" of this war. It's not illegal. What's a "legal" war, anyway? The entire concept is stupid. Calling it "immoral" is also nonapplicable, because morality really isn't part of the game plan in war. That's like talking about a healthy chili cookoff. War is amoral, and any overtones about liberation or morality are just motivational propaganda.

This war is badly conceived, non-strategic, a waste of time, money, resources and lives, and almost completely irrelevant to our goals, but it is neither illegal nor immoral. Contrary to what we've heard, democracies in the Mideast are neither feasible nor would they really have any positive impact on us. Would it make the oil any cheaper? No - democracies, although stable, tend to make things more expensive.

+1

If we get to choose which "war" we support and which orders we have to follow then we are doomed.Not trying to justify this war, support it or anything else other than if you don't follow orders you better have a good reason and be prepared for the reprecussions.

[ronwill]

Originally Posted by HK4U

There are most likely a lot in the military that joined for the educational benfits. The reality is that there has been very few years of "real peace" over the last 100 years or so. There will always be a war, police action or something that we are involved in, sometimes for good reasons other times the reasons are dubious at best. If you don't want to be sent to fight somewhere, anywhere, you best not join the service Joining and thinking you can avoid "action" is living in a fairy tell world.

Couldn't agree more. That's why, as Flight Chief at the time, I recommended an Article 15 (Non-Judicial Punishment) and discharge under less than honorable. They simply discharged him, no reduction in grade and basically an honorable discharge.

[boris]

was the soldie who refused o serve under the flag of The UN.

[HK4U]

Originally Posted by boris

was the soldie who refused o serve under the flag of The UN.

That's the one. I could not remember his name. I do not blame him for not serving under the U.N. Unfortunatly if you are in the military today that might be a reality. Something to think about if your ae considering joining.

[Teufel]

I really do hate people like him.

I had one with me in my first deployment. It wasn't a fun time for him once he made it known of course.

The folks that joined strictly for education and with no desire to actually fight the fight they get trained for deserve nothing.