President Bush says no to bailout for U.S. auto companies

[gdcleanfun]

Originally Posted by gpbarth

No bail-out! Money given to the auto manufacturers will keep them ALMOST solvent for another 6 months or so, and then they'll need another hand-out. And isn't it funny how the unions are taking a hard-core stand against doing anything to help the companies that they put in this position? UAW will not even consider any consessions with the companies, so when all of them become welfare cases, and the wonderful benefits and retirement funds they have disappear, they can thank themselves for sticking to their guns.

Have any idea how many auto workers will be out of work if Ford, GM and Chrysler go belly-up? You don't even want to know. But the scare tactics are already in place - we're already being told that this country simply cannot survive if these companies fail. Oh, really??? I for one would be willing to see.

Gpbarth, they are not looking for a bail out. They are looking for bridge loans of $25 billion. I'm confident that you know the difference between a bail out and a loan.

[HK4U]

Originally Posted by gdcleanfun

Gpbarth, they are not looking for a bail out. They are looking for bridge loans of $25 billion. I'm confident that you know the different between a bail out and a loan.

Seeing as how the government does not have a money tree I guess the 25 million will have to come from tax payers. If it is just a loan does that mean we will get it all back with interest?

[wolfhunter]

Originally Posted by HK4U

Seeing as how the government does not have a money tree I guess the 25 million will have to come from tax payers. If it is just a loan does that mean we will get it all back with interest?

No, they'll "pay it back" by selling overpriced trash to DOD just like Chrysler did when Carter helped bail them out last time around.

[gdcleanfun]

Originally Posted by wolfhunter

No, they'll "pay it back" by selling overpriced trash to DOD just like Chrysler did when Carter helped bail them out last time around.

Nope, not quite. They'll pay it back by not giving me a cost of living allowance (cola) for the next 10 years. I'll be so far behind in my retirement cola that I'll never catch up and I'll be one of the ones you'll hear about eating dog food for dinner. But I'll have my stash in my safe, they can try to take that away from my cold dead dog breath fingers. And I'll be happy.

Originally Posted by gdcleanfun

Gpbarth, they are not looking for a bail out. They are looking for bridge loans of $25 billion. I'm confident that you know the difference between a bail out and a loan.

I'm not as dense as I look. Yes, I know the difference between a loan and a bail-out. So the Big 3 get the billions of $$ they "need" to float them for the next few months. And in that time period, how is that money going to establish them so that they can then pay back these billions of $$? If they cannot afford to operate right now, how is this money going to magically put them back on board?

It isn't. At least the banks are being honest (???) in claiming that they want the bail-out. In today's newspaper, we got the first big "threat" from GM (and I quote):

The Auto Industry Matters: Telling It Like It Is

• One out of every 10 people in America is employed in a service that is related to the U.S. auto industry. If a plant closes, so does its suppliers, the local stores, the hot dog vendors, and the local restaurants
• Nearly 3 million jobs would be lost in the first year alone - with another 2.5 million to follow over the next two years.
• Personal income in the United States would drop by more than $150.7 billion in the first year.
• The cost to local, state and federal governments could reach $156.4 billion over three years in lost taxes, and unemployment and health care assistance.
• Domestic automobile production would more than likely fall to zero - even by international producers, due to supplier bnakruptcies.
• There are some 14,000 U.S.-brand dealers in cities and towns across the country, employing approximately 740,000 people, with a total payroll of some $35 billion.

This from "your local Chevy and Cadillac dealers." IOW, give us the money, or the nation will cease to exist. Pretty dire scenario, eh? Even the hot-dog vendors will be out of business if we don't save the Big 3. Gosh, not the hot-dog vendors. Is nothing sacred?

Well, tell me then how these guys are going to pay back this $25B loan? And when? Let's see, we just decided to "save" the banks and the loan industry, and now we're being asked to save the auto industry. Who's next? With $700B at stake, the hands are coming out of the woodwork. Pretty soon, the government will be running all business in this country, by default. And remember, when you owe the government, the government OWNS you.

No, no bail-out/loan for me. Let them file Chapter 11, and recover the right way. They screwed up, and there should be no "magic bullet" (appropos, don't you think?) to get them out of it. If I over-extended myself through bad decisions, can I go to the government and ask for a loan? I didn't think so.

[jwtollett21]

typical republican george bush is he don't care to bail out wall street with 700 billion but when it comes to main street and all those guys on those car assembly lines he says no to 25billion. The perfect example that the republicans are for the rich and the democrats are for the workers of america. If we don'tloan these guys the money the government will pay more. The government makes money if they loan it. IF they don't then they lose all those taxes. All the people that will be fired will be on state government insurance. they lose their house and cars. they draw unemployment. I think we lose bigger if we don't loan them the money. I say give them 25billion out of the 700 thats already been approved.

[HK4U]

Originally Posted by gpbarth

I'm not as dense as I look. Yes, I know the difference between a loan and a bail-out. So the Big 3 get the billions of $$ they "need" to float them for the next few months. And in that time period, how is that money going to establish them so that they can then pay back these billions of $$? If they cannot afford to operate right now, how is this money going to magically put them back on board?

It isn't. At least the banks are being honest (???) in claiming that they want the bail-out. In today's newspaper, we got the first big "threat" from GM (and I quote):

The Auto Industry Matters: Telling It Like It Is

• One out of every 10 people in America is employed in a service that is related to the U.S. auto industry. If a plant closes, so does its suppliers, the local stores, the hot dog vendors, and the local restaurants
• Nearly 3 million jobs would be lost in the first year alone - with another 2.5 million to follow over the next two years.
• Personal income in the United States would drop by more than $150.7 billion in the first year.
• The cost to local, state and federal governments could reach $156.4 billion over three years in lost taxes, and unemployment and health care assistance.
• Domestic automobile production would more than likely fall to zero - even by international producers, due to supplier bnakruptcies.
• There are some 14,000 U.S.-brand dealers in cities and towns across the country, employing approximately 740,000 people, with a total payroll of some $35 billion.

This from "your local Chevy and Cadillac dealers." IOW, give us the money, or the nation will cease to exist. Pretty dire scenario, eh? Even the hot-dog vendors will be out of business if we don't save the Big 3. Gosh, not the hot-dog vendors. Is nothing sacred?

Well, tell me then how these guys are going to pay back this $25B loan? And when? Let's see, we just decided to "save" the banks and the loan industry, and now we're being asked to save the auto industry. Who's next? With $700B at stake, the hands are coming out of the woodwork. Pretty soon, the government will be running all business in this country, by default. And remember, when you owe the government, the government OWNS you.

No, no bail-out/loan for me. Let them file Chapter 11, and recover the right way. They screwed up, and there should be no "magic bullet" (appropos, don't you think?) to get them out of it. If I over-extended myself through bad decisions, can I go to the government and ask for a loan? I didn't think so.

+1. It is time to stop the tax payer bail outs.

[netentity]

Originally Posted by jwtollett21

typical republican george bush is he don't care to bail out wall street with 700 billion but when it comes to main street and all those guys on those car assembly lines he says no to 25billion. The perfect example that the republicans are for the rich and the democrats are for the workers of america. If we don'tloan these guys the money the government will pay more. The government makes money if they loan it. IF they don't then they lose all those taxes. All the people that will be fired will be on state government insurance. they lose their house and cars. they draw unemployment. I think we lose bigger if we don't loan them the money. I say give them 25billion out of the 700 thats already been approved.

The banking crisis started when Carter was in office under the CRA. It got worse when Clinton was in office as he extended it. A majority of the issues with the CRA occured when Clinton was in office. We are just now seeing the sunamai effect of what Carter started. The CRA is what legalized subprime lending.

Clinton and most of Bush's term were riding the good economic waves created by Reagan.

Carter poured the lighter fluid on the economy by signing the CRA into law. The real estate market imploding was the match on the gasoline Clinton and Chuckie Schumer poured on it after Carter did his dirty work.

Economic implosions do not happen overnight. This one started in 1977.

In socialist Obamanation, economy buy YOU!!

[Glockster20]

Originally Posted by netentity

The banking crisis started when Carter was in office under the CRA. It got worse when Clinton was in office as he extended it. A majority of the issues with the CRA occured when Clinton was in office. We are just now seeing the sunamai effect of what Carter started. The CRA is what legalized subprime lending.

Clinton and most of Bush's term were riding the good economic waves created by Reagan.

Carter poured the lighter fluid on the economy by signing the CRA into law. The real estate market imploding was the match on the gasoline Clinton and Chuckie Schumer poured on it after Carter did his dirty work.

Economic implosions do not happen overnight. This one started in 1977.

In socialist Obamanation, economy buy YOU!!

AMEN! Anybody who has done their political homework would know this!!

Originally Posted by jwtollett21

typical republican george bush is he don't care to bail out wall street with 700 billion but when it comes to main street and all those guys on those car assembly lines he says no to 25billion. The perfect example that the republicans are for the rich and the democrats are for the workers of america. If we don'tloan these guys the money the government will pay more. The government makes money if they loan it. IF they don't then they lose all those taxes. All the people that will be fired will be on state government insurance. they lose their house and cars. they draw unemployment. I think we lose bigger if we don't loan them the money. I say give them 25billion out of the 700 thats already been approved.

Wall Street - BAD, but Mom/Pop/Apple Pie Ford, GM , Chrysler - GOOD? It is those UAW workers who have demanded (and got) almost cradle to grave benefits. With their comp, the average auto worker makes about $70K per year. And who pays for all of those great benefits? The companies do. A good description of the auto industry is a health benefits company that also makes cars. And the unions have already said that they don't care what happens to the companies, they won't budge an inch to help. And so if the companies go under, instead of giving up a little, they will lose everything. Sounds a bit selfish to me, don't you think?

And the $700B bail-out was never intended for anyone who needed help, it was for the banks and mortgage companies. It wasn't for Wall Street. Notice how, even after the $70B was approved, the stock market continued to tank. Why would that be, if the market as a whole just got that big of a shot in the arm?

And stop blaming Bush - Congress turned it down and the Senate brought it back. IMNSHO, that first hand-out should never have been approved. And now the auto industry wants in. I still say, Chapter 11. Reorganize, get priorities straight, and do business the good ol' American way.