Police use excessive force, ER docs say

[S&WM&P40]

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – In a survey of a random sample of U.S. emergency physicians, virtually all said they believed that law enforcement officers use excessive force to arrest and detain suspects.

The sample included 315 respondents. While 99.8 percent believed excessive force is used, almost as many (97.8 percent) reported that they had managed cases that they suspected or that the patient stated had involved excessive use of force by law enforcement officers.

Nearly two thirds (65.3 percent) estimated that they had treated two or more cases of suspected excessive use of force per year among their patients, according to a report of the survey published in the January 2009 issue of the Emergency Medicine Journal.

Dr. Jared Strote of the University of Washington, Seattle, and a multicenter team also found that emergency physicians at public teaching hospitals were roughly four times more likely to report managing cases of suspected use of excessive force than those at university or community teaching emergency departments.

Blunt trauma inflicted by fists or feet was the most common type of injury cited in cases of suspected use of excessive force, followed by "overly tight" handcuffs.

Most emergency physicians (71.2 percent) admitted that they did not report cases of suspected use of excessive force by law enforcement officers.

A large majority (96.5 percent) reported that they had no departmental policies on reporting their suspicions or they did not know of a policy to guide their actions, and 93.7 percent said they had received no education or training in dealing with these situations.

However, most emergency physicians (69.5 percent) felt that it was within their scope of practice to refer cases of suspected use of excessive force for investigation and almost half (47.9 percent) felt that emergency physicians should be legally required to report cases of suspected use of excessive force by law enforcement officers.

These findings, Strote and colleagues conclude, "suggest that national emergency medicine organizations in the USA should become involved, jointly developing and advocating for guidelines to manage this complex issue."

SOURCE: Emergency Medicine Journal, January 2009.

[wolfhunter]

Originally Posted by S&WM&P40

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – In a survey of a random sample of U.S. emergency physicians, virtually all said they believed that law enforcement officers use excessive force to arrest and detain suspects.

The sample included 315 respondents. While 99.8 percent believed excessive force is used, almost as many (97.8 percent) reported that they had managed cases that they suspected or that the patient stated had involved excessive use of force by law enforcement officers.

Nearly two thirds (65.3 percent) estimated that they had treated two or more cases of suspected excessive use of force per year among their patients, according to a report of the survey published in the January 2009 issue of the Emergency Medicine Journal.

Dr. Jared Strote of the University of Washington, Seattle, and a multicenter team also found that emergency physicians at public teaching hospitals were roughly four times more likely to report managing cases of suspected use of excessive force than those at university or community teaching emergency departments.

Blunt trauma inflicted by fists or feet was the most common type of injury cited in cases of suspected use of excessive force, followed by "overly tight" handcuffs.

Most emergency physicians (71.2 percent) admitted that they did not report cases of suspected use of excessive force by law enforcement officers.

A large majority (96.5 percent) reported that they had no departmental policies on reporting their suspicions or they did not know of a policy to guide their actions, and 93.7 percent said they had received no education or training in dealing with these situations.

However, most emergency physicians (69.5 percent) felt that it was within their scope of practice to refer cases of suspected use of excessive force for investigation and almost half (47.9 percent) felt that emergency physicians should be legally required to report cases of suspected use of excessive force by law enforcement officers.

These findings, Strote and colleagues conclude, "suggest that national emergency medicine organizations in the USA should become involved, jointly developing and advocating for guidelines to manage this complex issue."

SOURCE: Emergency Medicine Journal, January 2009.

NO ER doctor has a clue as to when excessive force is used during an arrest unless he/she was doing a ride-along at the time. If 47.9% actually do think reporting these cases should be required, they should be required to get out of the ER and serve as posse members on ride alongs.

[tattedupboy]

Is is possible that many of these injuries are exacerbated when suspects try to resist arrest? Not saying that police brutality doesn't exist (it does), but let's also remember that when police are making an arrest, they are authorized to use whatever force necessary, even if it results in injury.

[Boomboy007]

PLEASE tell me that you guys are not simply Law Enforcement "fanboys". Remember that these officers are SERVANTS of the public, and these individuals being arrested are, by and large, UNITED STATES CITIZENS. Most of the excessive uses of force are not because of resistance, but rather because the LEO gets pissed off.

If an individual is the type to be bothered by taunts, insults, threats, or being spat upon, law enforcement is the absolute wrong field for them. Unfortunately, the type of person who is often attracted to the authority of LE is the absolute opposite of the type needed.

I would much prefer departments full of respectful, diplomatic LEO's as opposed to a department with the fastest draw this side of the Mississippi River.

[HK4U]

Some officers use excessive force no doubt about. We all know of incidences of this happening. However to lump all officers in that group is crap. On the other hand a lot of the criminals that are brought in are lucky more force on them was not used because of what they did or how they react when arrested. Remember these doctors are some of the same ones who think guns should be banned.

[wolfhunter]

Years ago, an off duty deputy ran out of gas on his personal motorcycle at night. While pushing the motorcycle the 2 blocks to a gas station, he was hit by a drunk driver in a pickup. Fortunately, he was only knocked down, and was able to get a partial tag number. When they arrested the drunk 2 hours later, he spent part of the ride to the county jail explaining that he thought he only hit an orange cone. Until the Trooper told him, "Don't make me pull this car over."

[wuzfuz]

Boomboy, are you a cheerleader for the arrestees? I would have loved it when we told someone he was under arrest he would submit quietly to being cuffed and transported. However, a lot of people thinkthat if they can fight hard enoough to escape, then we ahve to say, "Nanny, nanny Boo-boo," and go about our business. One night when I was working in our jail substation in Casa Grande, AZ, Casa Grande PD brough in a belligerent subject who decided to fight. As there were about six officers there, booking prisoners, we swarmed him and held him down until we got restraints backon him. His girl friend began yelling that the six cops had beat up her boyfriend. I tild her no, we each grabbed a body part and held him down. If there had been one or two officers, someone would have gone to the hospital. If you immobilize a person by holding his arms and legs and head, he can't fight, and soon has to relax so he is not tiring himself out. There were times I did have to fight arrestees, and I was injured more than once, but it was not my choice. Most often drunks think they are Billy Bad-a$$ and want to prove they can beat up a cop. I agree, those snotty doctors need to spend a few shifts in a patrol car and see what people are like and what results in thieir injuries.

[{TEX}Hawaii((]

Reuters often uses biased polls or ones like this that make no sense. Every situation is different and unless they are there they cannot possibly know if excessive force was used or not.

[tattedupboy]

Originally Posted by Boomboy007

PLEASE tell me that you guys are not simply Law Enforcement "fanboys". Remember that these officers are SERVANTS of the public, and these individuals being arrested are, by and large, UNITED STATES CITIZENS. Most of the excessive uses of force are not because of resistance, but rather because the LEO gets pissed off.

If an individual is the type to be bothered by taunts, insults, threats, or being spat upon, law enforcement is the absolute wrong field for them. Unfortunately, the type of person who is often attracted to the authority of LE is the absolute opposite of the type needed.

I would much prefer departments full of respectful, diplomatic LEO's as opposed to a department with the fastest draw this side of the Mississippi River.

I'm not so much a LE fanboy as I am disdainful of criminals. I too want all LEOs to be diplomatic and repsectful, while at the same time free to do their jobs without having to be worried about doctors who most likely don't know what they're talking about accusing them of brutality.

[magicman007]

Originally Posted by Boomboy007

PLEASE tell me that you guys are not simply Law Enforcement "fanboys". Remember that these officers are SERVANTS of the public, and these individuals being arrested are, by and large, UNITED STATES CITIZENS. Most of the excessive uses of force are not because of resistance, but rather because the LEO gets pissed off.

If an individual is the type to be bothered by taunts, insults, threats, or being spat upon, law enforcement is the absolute wrong field for them. Unfortunately, the type of person who is often attracted to the authority of LE is the absolute opposite of the type needed.

I would much prefer departments full of respectful, diplomatic LEO's as opposed to a department with the fastest draw this side of the Mississippi River.

Just one or two questions to you boomboy.
First, I'm sure YOU are a servant to SOMEONE on this earth (whether it be your boss, or someone else). How much personal abuse and physical battery are YOU willing to endure to do your job? Remember also, that if the individual has HIV and they spit at someone, it can be construed as assault with the intent to kill. That has been held in the courts.
Second, and just as, if not more important, should your thoughts of respect and courtesy not go BOTH ways? Should the public not respect the position of the police officer as much as the officer should respect the public? If an officer tells you to stop running or fighting, or running your mouth (showing disrespect), should you not listen to him/her?
Just because someone is your employee does not give you the "right" to disrespect him or her. And let's talk about safety. If someone resists arrest physically and begins fighting the officer, at what point is the force to stop the attack and secure the arrest "excessive"? This is not a black and white issue. It's not something you can just pass on every officer or every case. MANY arrests take place without the need for the arrestee to be seen in an ED, so the poll is flawed from the start.