Open Carry and Alcohol Limits

[TooCalm]

I applied for my CCW. permit in may, 2007. The mental health dept. will not sign off on it until I pay them $118. for a substance abuse evaluation. I made the mistake of telling them that I drank beer every day, after work, at home; and that as a young man I had smoked pot. I am not going to pay thousands of dollars for a permit.There is no way they are going to say I do not need 30 or 40 of their therapy sessions at $118. each.
It was over 15 years ago that I told them I drank. To this day I have never been in legal trouble over alcohol. No DWI's Nothing! I have never even missed one day of work.
I was betrayed by my Therapist! What ever you tell them is not Private! Just the fact that you sought out help from a mental health provider will label you as Crazy! That is a Stigma that will follow you the rest of your life!
The 2nd, 5th, and 14th amendments don't mean a thing once you are stigmatized as Crazy!
If you drink don't admit it to your doctor, and if you have a CCW. permit; do not carry your weapon if you are going to have any alcohol what so ever!

[kelcarry]

Per the Michigan state regs, what does .02 alcohol level in a 200# male equate to? If it is one beer or one glass of wine--case closed--you are in trouble if god forbid your firearm ends up being discharged. As said in a previous post, the criminal and civil consequences having violated the law are not worth it. The issue of being able to CC in a restaurant that serves alcohol is another funny subject--our great and nanny government has decided that we are too stupid to obey the law when it comes to alcohol and CC so they eliminate this temptation that we are too weak and retarded to understand.

[micpl]

Per the Michigan state regs, what does .02 alcohol level in a 200# male equate to? If it is one beer or one glass of wine--case closed--you are in trouble if god forbid your firearm ends up being discharged. As said in a previous post, the criminal and civil consequences having violated the law are not worth it. The issue of being able to CC in a restaurant that serves alcohol is another funny subject--our great and nanny government has decided that we are too stupid to obey the law when it comes to alcohol and CC so they eliminate this temptation that we are too weak and retarded to understand.

I'm a Michigan resident and I carry legal.

The law doesnt care if I'm in a restaurant unless i'm consuming. Cannot be a bar/tavern.

In addition to the above, the MI law doesnt care where I am in PUBLIC [including gun free zones, MI law CCW law doesnt apply to OC carry, VERY COMPLICATED], if I have a BAC .02 and they test me positive for that amount I'm finished there and then. I DONT HAVE TO HAVE DISCHARGED MY WEAPON. It doesnt matter if I'm driving, walking or sitting in a park. Busted.

So MI is very friendly to dinning out as long as you dont fall into temptation and "sip" one. We are told that if we lock up in the parking lot and wait for "one beer" to wear off, then go ahead, but its the cop who can change all that when you drive away.

Bottom line is MI has good law but you better not drink here and be caught in public "packing" with any BAC. You will be in more trouble than you wanted for to drink a beer .

BTW. I like Canadian Beers.

[ricbak]

I'm a Michigan resident and I carry legal.

The law doesnt care if I'm in a restaurant unless i'm consuming. Cannot be a bar/tavern.

In addition to the above, the MI law doesnt care where I am in PUBLIC [including gun free zones, MI law CCW law doesnt apply to OC carry, VERY COMPLICATED], if I have a BAC .02 and they test me positive for that amount I'm finished there and then. I DONT HAVE TO HAVE DISCHARGED MY WEAPON. It doesnt matter if I'm driving, walking or sitting in a park. Busted.

So MI is very friendly to dinning out as long as you dont fall into temptation and "sip" one. We are told that if we lock up in the parking lot and wait for "one beer" to wear off, then go ahead, but its the cop who can change all that when you drive away.

Bottom line is MI has good law but you better not drink here and be caught in public "packing" with any BAC. You will be in more trouble than you wanted for to drink a beer .

BTW. I like Canadian Beers.

Michigan carry laws are not the best, BUT,,,, ARE so far superior to some of the laws the Nor-easters have to contend with. I quit drinking a long time ago, so no big deal ... But it is not wise to drink and drive, There's not any differance... Put the sidearm in the safe and enjoy your beer.. or your wobblypop... (ccnginger)

[micpl]

Hey ricbak, good to hear from a fellow MIgander. Yes our CCW laws are good and getting better all the time. Im safe so I will "crack" one as you suggested. Oh NO! I can feel the flames coming already.

[kelcarry]

Hey micpl: Can you or anyone in forumland tell me whether one beer for a 200# guy during a 1-2 hour meal will register .02? I agree with you that if you register .02 after a beerl, you will and should be busted, not to mention the legal and civil consequences if you are at or over that limit and god forbid you actually use your firearm and injure or kill someone. As far as bars and taverns---most serve food at sit-down tables---even restaurants have bars and even tavern-like areas--distinguishing the difference gets to be a difficult if not impossiblel; sure some bars are just alcohol guzzling places but the majority, these days, are not like that--at least where I live.At least MI is willing to address this whole issue with some degree of libertarian sanity and for that I applaud them.

[micpl]

Hey micpl: Can you or anyone in forumland tell me whether one beer for a 200# guy during a 1-2 hour meal will register .02? I agree with you that if you register .02 after a beerl, you will and should be busted, not to mention the legal and civil consequences if you are at or over that limit and god forbid you actually use your firearm and injure or kill someone. As far as bars and taverns---most serve food at sit-down tables---even restaurants have bars and even tavern-like areas--distinguishing the difference gets to be a difficult if not impossiblel; sure some bars are just alcohol guzzling places but the majority, these days, are not like that--at least where I live.At least MI is willing to address this whole issue with some degree of libertarian sanity and for that I applaud them.

Good morning kelcarry,

Nobody I know of has/can answer your question about BAC, it has to remain I think a subjective question and non answerable. So many factors and variables would influence the outcome and the instrument might register in error. At .02 there is not room for such, is there? Besides if a cop in MI even suspects you been drinking he/she can seize a CPL,s weapon without a BAC test. By law though as a MI CPL you agree ahead of time when you accept your permit to take such test. Even if you register under .02 the officer is required to inform the gunboard that you were found to have BAC. Your still in trouble no matter how you register. .02 is not a get out of jail free card. Personally I think it should be and an officer who is savy will just ask and listen then make a judgment without destroying a CPL,s chances, but I wouldnt want to bet on it. It is the same way in MI on DUI, your life is forever changed for the worse. Huge fines and privlages taken away and even jail of course.

All in all the numbers matter when you are over the limit and even under the limit too. In MI if you have any BAC during any stop in public you will be in trouble in some way if you are driving or you CCW. The gun board in my County will draw and quarter someone with glee. If I had a prior evenings indulgence and I leave my residence the next morning my gun stays home. Yes I feel fine and ate breakfast and drank coffee and my eyes are white and not glassed over etc. No problem right?. WRONG. Like you I dont know what would register even the morning after and I wont trust a cop or let alone an instrument to lean in my favor. In MI they basicly have a zero tolerance law, I dont care what that .02 limit states. Those of us who abide the law and are responsible would be thrown under the bus as soon or quicker than the irresponsible.

I cant say it plain enough. In MI dont get caught in public CCW with ANY BAC.

[ronwill]

I fully support "no carry under the influence" just as I do DUI laws. Everyone thinks they know their limit, however, many get caught DUI or even cause accidents. Judgment and reflexes become impaired after just a few drinks. This being said, I believe carrying inside a bar should be allowed as long as you're the "designated" carrier or driver and not drinking.

[micpl]

I fully support "no carry under the influence" just as I do DUI laws. Everyone thinks they know their limit, however, many get caught DUI or even cause accidents. Judgment and reflexes become impaired after just a few drinks. This being said, I believe carrying inside a bar should be allowed as long as you're the "designated" carrier or driver and not drinking.

Hey ronwill, I have a question for you. Sometime back in the 70's I visited Kennesaw and we went to a bar with some local relatives. Patrons were standing at the bar drinking OC. It was quite a sight. I know Georgia was way out front ahead of the nation in CCW laws etc. Are things different now? How?

[ronwill]

Hey ronwill, I have a question for you. Sometime back in the 70's I visited Kennesaw and we went to a bar with some local relatives. Patrons were standing at the bar drinking OC. It was quite a sight. I know Georgia was way out front ahead of the nation in CCW laws etc. Are things different now? How?

Yeah things have changed considerably. The infamous "public gatherings" clause came into affect and, until recently, it was illegal to carry anywhere alcohol was served. Now you can carry into a restaurant that serves alcohol but you still can't carry into any establishment that gets most of it's proceeds from alcohol sales. All in all Georgia still ranks fairly high as a gun friendly state when compared to some others. A grass roots organization (GeorgiaCarry.org) formed a couple of years ago and is at the forefront of great changes in the laws.