My Grand Social Experiment

[NavyLCDR]

I wouldn't step one foot out in public with a gun based on what you or anyone on a forum says.

Apparently we don't rise to the level of credibility that the news media does.

What I can say is, I WAS HERE when NV passed their RTC and Shall Issue laws and I remember the 'opt out' provision as being a part of that legislation, according to the news at least. I have no burden to prove to anyone here the statute exists. I believe it does, that's how I roll.

^^^That's just funny right there, I don't care who you are!

We are all individually responsible for knowing and complying with all laws.

Apparently, that responsibility does not extend to you because you don't feel responsible to know the law. You only feel responsible to continue to believe what you heard on the news rather than what is actually written (or in this case, not written) in statute. You feel no personal responsibility, at all, to prove what you believe is true either to yourself or to us, other than take for granted what you heard on the news.

I cut firewood for a living, not research and interpret laws.

You might want to check into becoming a CCW instructor or work in a gun store, you seem cut out for that job!

Look, you're obviously anti-cop, I gotta tell ya, I'm not.

I only expect police officers to follow the real statutes, just like society expects me to.

We'll agree to disagree and I'll be glad to buy you a beer if you ever get to Reno.

Well, at least you don't have the same phobia of guns and beer in the presence of each other like some members here do.

The only problem I have with your actions, BuddhaKat, is that you are publically declaring a place is illegal to carry firearms where there is no statute to back up your claims (that location being a private business that has the 'proper signage' posted). If you are going to make a claim that an action is illegal, personally, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask what statute makes it illegal. Maybe I am attempting to hold Joe Citizen to too high of a standard.

[Dekul34]

Seems that there's no sign in NV that instantly makes you a criminal for going into a place with a firearm, but regardless of sign or not, once they ask you to leave you must leave else be cited for trespassing. They can do this for any reason be it having a firearm or wearing a striped shirt, having the sign at the door seems irrelevant in this case, except that the business should be clear about their policy as a courtesy to their guests rather than asking them to leave after the fact, but it's their perogative either way.

[BuddhaKat]

Apparently we don't rise to the level of credibility that the news media does.

Do you? If what people on a forum, whom you don't know from Adam, say something is one way, would you just take it on faith that they know what they're talking about. After all, we do all belong to the same club.

What I listened to on the news was the politicians crafting the law. It was a rather contentious battle as you might imagine. IIRC, opting out was the compromise.

I believe I'm familiar enough with our local laws to safely go about my business while carrying my gun. Even if I'm wrong on this one point, I'm still erring on the side of compliance. I'd rather be there than the opposite side of the law. No matter what direction I want our gun laws to go, I still believe it's incumbent on us all to obey the law.

Apparently, that responsibility does not extend to you because you don't feel responsible to know the law. You only feel responsible to continue to believe what you heard on the news rather than what is actually written (or in this case, not written) in statute. You feel no personal responsibility, at all, to prove what you believe is true either to yourself or to us, other than take for granted what you heard on the news.

HOGWASH! I believe I'm fine on the law. You're right though, I feel no responsibility whatsoever to prove anything to you. You want proof, get it yourself. What I know about the law is that it has little to do with truth or justice, or even fairness. All law is subject to argument and interpretation, thus rendering it imperfect. Even if there is a statute that says one thing, there can be another seemingly unrelated one that will nullify it. For example, there are TONS of laws on the rights of people to go into public places and businesses. If there weren't there would be a lot of black people that couldn't eat at the same cafe as me. If a place is 'open to the public, it's open to all the public. Would that law prevent a business owner from telling me to leave, even if I'm not creating a problem or doing anything illegal? We are free to bar people of color from coming into our home, but you can't do it at the IHOP. So you're asking me to post a statute that I really don't know how to get to, or render a legal opinion that I'm not qualified to give.

There is nothing you can say, short of posting an unchallenged opinion from a sitting judge saying it ain't so. Anything short of that and I'm going to stay fat, dumb and happy with what I believe the law is. For anyone else to believe they should do anything based on what Mike Keeney says, well, that would be just dumb. Each one of is personally responsible for our actions and education.

You might want to check into becoming a CCW instructor or work in a gun store, you seem cut out for that job!

Why? I have a job. I work hard at it and I provide a good product at a fair price. If I were to quit what I'm doing, I can think of a few old ladies, living on social security, that would freeze to death during the winter because I'm the only firewood guy in town that will deliver to them without being paid in full up front. I let them pay whatever they can, whenever they can, or not at all. Why would you want to stop that?

Well, at least you don't have the same phobia of guns and beer in the presence of each other like some members here do.

Nah, no phobia about that, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal in NV to consume alcohol while carrying a loaded gun.

The only problem I have with your actions, BuddhaKat, is that you are publically declaring a place is illegal to carry firearms where there is no statute to back up your claims (that location being a private business that has the 'proper signage' posted). If you are going to make a claim that an action is illegal, personally, I don't think it is unreasonable to ask what statute makes it illegal. Maybe I am attempting to hold Joe Citizen to too high of a standard.

I'm publicly declaring what I believe the law to be. I could easily be wrong. I could just as easily be right. Navigating the legal system is a trade and art unto itself. Far above my pay grade fer sure.

[NavyLCDR]

Nah, no phobia about that, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal in NV to consume alcohol while carrying a loaded gun.

Another false belief regarding Nevada statutes. Thank you for playing, have a nice day.

For those interested in the actual statute, vice unfounded opinion:

NRS: CHAPTER 202 - CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY

NRS 202.257 Possession of firearm when under influence of alcohol, controlled substance or other intoxicating substance; administration of evidentiary test; penalty; forfeiture of firearm.

1. It is unlawful for a person who:

(a) Has a concentration of alcohol of 0.10 or more in his or her blood or breath; or

(b) Is under the influence of any controlled substance, or is under the combined influence of intoxicating liquor and a controlled substance, or any person who inhales, ingests, applies or otherwise uses any chemical, poison or organic solvent, or any compound or combination of any of these, to a degree which renders him or her incapable of safely exercising actual physical control of a firearm,
to have in his or her actual physical possession any firearm. This prohibition does not apply to the actual physical possession of a firearm by a person who was within the person’s personal residence and had the firearm in his or her possession solely for self-defense.

2. Any evidentiary test to determine whether a person has violated the provisions of subsection 1 must be administered in the same manner as an evidentiary test that is administered pursuant to NRS 484C.160 to 484C.250, inclusive, except that submission to the evidentiary test is required of any person who is directed by a police officer to submit to the test. If a person to be tested fails to submit to a required test as directed by a police officer, the officer may direct that reasonable force be used to the extent necessary to obtain the samples of blood from the person to be tested, if the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be tested was in violation of this section.

3. Any person who violates the provisions of subsection 1 is guilty of a misdemeanor.

4. A firearm is subject to forfeiture pursuant to NRS 179.1156 to 179.119, inclusive, only if, during the violation of subsection 1, the firearm is brandished, aimed or otherwise handled by the person in a manner which endangered others.

5. As used in this section, the phrase “concentration of alcohol of 0.10 or more in his or her blood or breath” means 0.10 gram or more of alcohol per 100 milliliters of the blood of a person or per 210 liters of his or her breath.

[BuddhaKat]

Thank you for that clarification. So, my offer still stands, if you don't mind if I order a root beer. (Diabetic).

[BuddhaKat]

Ok, you we're right, I was wrong.

If you ask my wife, she'll tell you that I never think I'm wrong about anything, and even when I am I'll never admit it. On the other hand, I know from LOTS of experience that neither is true.

So, for the record, you were right about the no opt out provision and with regard to alcohol and being in possession of a firearm. I stand corrected and educated sir and thank you for your enlightenment.

Also, for the record, even though I have my fair share of flubs, it doesn't mean I have to like them.

[NavyLCDR]

No problems and no hard feelings, BuddhaKat. I would be honored to share a time of fellowship and discussion over a round of root beers, any time!

[BuddhaKat]

NP. If you ever get to Reno, by all means give me a shout. I look forward to the rootbeer hoist. ;)