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My Grand Social Experiment

This is a discussion on My Grand Social Experiment within the Open Carry Discussion forums, part of the Main Category category; Originally Posted by NavyLCDR ... or wearing socks with sandals. Tread lightly my friend.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    ... or wearing socks with sandals.
    Tread lightly my friend....
    “One of the illusions of life is that the present hour is not the critical, decisive one.” – Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddhaKat View Post
    Nevada is such a state, whether you think so or not, or whether I can find the statute or not. I'm not a cop or a lawyer. However, you can't get in trouble for carrying a gun in a store in Nevada if said store doesn't have the proper sign prohibiting it displayed on each point of entry. Gun laws are gun laws here. Trespassing laws are something entirely different. I don't put my gun at risk of seizure or me at risk of a misdemeanor if the store isn't properly signed.

    But again, it would be just plain rude not to respect an establishment that doesn't want people carrying on their property. I might not agree with the and I may not patronize them while such a policy is in place, but I won't give them any grief on purpose.
    Without my trying to be a jerk...

    Would you please provide a cite and/or link to the actual Nevada statute (the gun law itself) in reference to signage?

    I'm curious to see how it is worded.

    Since you asserted that such statutes exist then it is incumbent upon you to provide proof what you said is correct.

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    As I said, I'm not a cop or a lawyer, so looking this stuff up isn't really my bag. I will say this, I was here when the legislature enacted the law and the Gov signed it. I remember being advised by multiple sources that if a sign was posted on the door of a business prohibiting guns, it was legal and valid. I also know that it makes little sense for people such as all of us here to parse words over the specifics of any law since there is little to stop any court from changing the original intent via their own interpretation of what the lawmakers were originally going for, especially since activist judges are more than willing to fabricate what they believe the genuine intentions were.

    So, for those of you that wish to, please feel free to stand your ground and make a stink, but please do it somewhere other than Nevada. Being a bellicose jerk doesn't really help the cause or do anything to put the rest of the public at ease.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddhaKat View Post
    So, for those of you that wish to, please feel free to stand your ground and make a stink, but please do it somewhere other than Nevada. Being a bellicose jerk doesn't really help the cause or do anything to put the rest of the public at ease.
    Nobody here is saying stand your ground and make a stink. In fact, it was you, at the mall, that was making a stink about signs which were not required by law to be posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by BuddhaKat View Post
    I did explain that NV law requires a business that wants to prohibit people from lawfully carrying they have to post that on the door.

    but, he should know that Nevada Statutes require very specific language posted on every door if they intend to prohibit law abiding citizens from carrying on their property. He told me they have it posted on the inside. I told him that I wasn't trying to be confrontational, obstinate or in any way a problem, but they should know that if they want to prohibit people from carrying, the sign they have is not in compliance and that they legally can't stop anyone from carrying (if the gun owner wanted to push the point). "Again, I'm not trying to appear in any way that I won't respect your wishes, but if the mall wants to keep guns out, their current sign wasn't legally sufficient".
    ^^^^^There is NO statute in Nevada law requiring a private business to post signs.

    The vast majority of us here, myself included, are saying if the owner/agent of the property asks you to leave, you leave.
    Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman. Amerika: a place where the serfs are afraid of the action the police may take against them for perfectly legal behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddhaKat View Post
    As I said, I'm not a cop or a lawyer, so looking this stuff up isn't really my bag.

    If you aren't able to provide a cite and/or a link to prove that what you said is fact.... why should anyone take what you said to be fact?

    I will say this, I was here when the legislature enacted the law and the Gov signed it. I remember being advised by multiple sources that if a sign was posted on the door of a business prohibiting guns, it was legal and valid.

    Then please provide a cite and/or a link to the law that you were "here" for when the law was enacted and the Gov. signed it. And provide cites and/or links to those multiple sources who advised you that if a sign was posted on the door of a business prohibiting guns, it was legal and valid.

    Please understand that I, and perhaps some others, would like to actually read the black letter law itself in order to gain an understanding of the law itself. And please understand that since you are asserting that it is law it is incumbent upon you to provide cites and/or links... it is not up to me to go sifting through Nevada's laws to prove what you say is either right or wrong.

    Show me the facts. Please.


    I also know that it makes little sense for people such as all of us here to parse words over the specifics of any law since there is little to stop any court from changing the original intent via their own interpretation of what the lawmakers were originally going for, especially since activist judges are more than willing to fabricate what they believe the genuine intentions were.

    While activist judges can, and often do, interpret the law according to their own personal agendas... it makes excellent sense for us, all of us, to read the actual laws and to learn what the law itself says in order to fight the rulings of activist judges. To do anything less is to simply lay down and lose the fight to keep our rights without so much as a whimper.

    So, for those of you that wish to, please feel free to stand your ground and make a stink, but please do it somewhere other than Nevada. Being a bellicose jerk doesn't really help the cause or do anything to put the rest of the public at ease.
    Raising a stink is necessary everywhere where rights are trampled!!! The reason so many rights have been trampled is ... no one bothered to raise a stink!!!!! Or they didn't have the courage to raise a stink because they were afraid the rest of the public would not be at ease.

    I do not understand why someone who is fighting in support of the cause to regain rights would be thought of as a "bellicose jerk". I would think such a person would be thought of as .... "a patriot".

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    No kidding you didnt get any "nlownack"? Ppl are not just going to start to tell you they dont approve....most LEO's are in favor, makes the crime rate go down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Nobody here is saying stand your ground and make a stink. In fact, it was you, at the mall, that was making a stink about signs which were not required by law to be posted.
    Not so. I made no stink whatsoever. In fact, I cooperated fully and told them that multiple times. They weren't upset with me, nor I with them. I just wish their policy was different. I told them what I did as a courtesy and I think they took it that way. I certainly didn't plant my feet and stand my ground and start spouting laws and such. Causing a stink wasn't going to change whether I was leaving the mall or not, but it would have guaranteed I would have met a cop before exiting. A cop that most likely wouldn't be too happy with me for being a jerk.


    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    ^^^^^There is NO statute in Nevada law requiring a private business to post signs.

    The vast majority of us here, myself included, are saying if the owner/agent of the property asks you to leave, you leave.
    Tomayto/Tomahhto my friend. I believe there is, you believe there isn't, either of us proving the other wrong is irrelevant. But we do agree on one thing, if you're asked to leave, it's best to just leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddhaKat View Post
    Tomayto/Tomahhto my friend. I believe there is, you believe there isn't, either of us proving the other wrong is irrelevant.
    If you are going to open carry a gun, you bet it is relevant to know what the law is, or in this case, is not. I find it interesting that you continue to believe in this non-existent law when we have even given you the links to the actual statutes on the state's government website. "Just because it is not written in statute, I continue to believe it is the law" makes no sense coming from a person who is going to open carry. We have enough issues with law enforcement officers believing in statutes that don't exist.
    Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman. Amerika: a place where the serfs are afraid of the action the police may take against them for perfectly legal behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddhaKat View Post
    -snip-

    Tomayto/Tomahhto my friend. I believe there is, you believe there isn't, either of us proving the other wrong is irrelevant. But we do agree on one thing, if you're asked to leave, it's best to just leave.
    When it comes to the law it is imperative that actual law be presented because someone's opinion of what the law is won't help when a person gets arrested for doing something according to an opinion they read or heard. An opinion that was presented, and defended, as fact without any proof it is fact.

    The flip side of that is that unless the actual law is presented some folks might forgo exercising a legal right just because they read someone's opinion. An opinion that was presented, and defended, as fact without any proof it is fact.

    While some might think this internet is a nice toy that no one takes seriously... there are many folks who look to forums in hopes of finding people who know what they are doing and who know what the law really is. Cites and/or links provide these folks with an avenue to discover what the law actually is.

    And, in my not so humble and likely annoying opinion!, folks who present something as fact without backing it up and expect everyone to believe it just because they said so.... are doing a disservice to everyone who reads their posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    If you are going to open carry a gun, you bet it is relevant to know what the law is, or in this case, is not. I find it interesting that you continue to believe in this non-existent law when we have even given you the links to the actual statutes on the state's government website. "Just because it is not written in statute, I continue to believe it is the law" makes no sense coming from a person who is going to open carry. We have enough issues with law enforcement officers believing in statutes that don't exist.
    Again, I have to point out that I am not a lawyer, cop or judge. Whether I can or cannot quote statutes chapter and verse is quite frankly not my job. What I can say is, I WAS HERE when NV passed their RTC and Shall Issue laws and I remember the 'opt out' provision as being a part of that legislation, according to the news at least. I cut firewood for a living, not research and interpret laws. That anyone would stand in front of a judge and present anything I say as a basis for their defense is laughable, just as it would be if anyone relied on what you or anyone else here says. If you want to know anything about the law here or in any state, go hire a lawyer and ask them. I have no burden to prove to anyone here the statute exists. I believe it does, that's how I roll. You don't, more power to you. I wouldn't step one foot out in public with a gun based on what you or anyone on a forum says. We are all individually responsible for knowing and complying with all laws.

    My purpose for starting this thread was to talk about my experiences OC'n around my area. I've enjoyed the conversations I've had with people regarding carrying and personal defense. Overall, I think I do a decent job interacting and educating the public. You've found a minor thing I commented about that may or may not be an issue with a cop's interpretation of the law and pounced on it like Bruce Willis pounding Junior's head into the ground in Sin City. Look, you're obviously anti-cop, I gotta tell ya, I'm not. We'll agree to disagree and I'll be glad to buy you a beer if you ever get to Reno. Either way, the only thing that happened was a mall asked me to leave and I did, without incident. In the end, that's what we both agree was the right thing to do.

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