Last weekend in Vermont
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Last weekend in Vermont

This is a discussion on Last weekend in Vermont within the Open Carry Discussion forums, part of the Main Category category; I took my 16-year old son to VT for the weekend, staying at a friend's cabin in the boonies. As ...

  1. #1
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    Default Last weekend in Vermont

    I took my 16-year old son to VT for the weekend, staying at a friend's cabin in the boonies. As soon as we hit the border from NH, I stopped the car, we both got out, and I gave him a holstered CZ-82 to hang from his belt. While he's had numerous trips to the range, and has been shooting for about four years, this was the first time he's ever been "strapped." We stopped at Wallyworld for provisions and supplies, where he constantly tugged at his belt. He had no inkling that I was going to "allow" him to open carry, nevermind carry at all. I remember how it was for me when I first carried, but that was in Nam, where everyone and their mother was armed. On our next trip (in Sept. for a gunshow), if he asks, I'll bring his grandfather's WWII 1911A1, which has a 70 year family history, but he's gonna have to hitch his belt tighter or his pants will journey south!
    NRA RSO, NRA and MA Pistol Instructor. MA (LTC-A), NH (PL), ME (CP), AZ (CWP), FL (CWP). RVN 69-70. 4th ID and 1st Log

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    What I think is funny is how lenient the law on a minor is. Under VT law a parent who furnishes a gun to a person under 16-years-old is only subjected to a $50 fine.
    GOD, GUNS and GUITARS

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1 View Post
    What I think is funny is how lenient the law on a minor is. Under VT law a parent who furnishes a gun to a person under 16-years-old is only subjected to a $50 fine.
    Matter of fact, an under sixteen can carry with parental permission. But I think the cutoff is fifteen, but I could be wrong.
    NRA RSO, NRA and MA Pistol Instructor. MA (LTC-A), NH (PL), ME (CP), AZ (CWP), FL (CWP). RVN 69-70. 4th ID and 1st Log

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    Default Last weekend in Vermont

    Gotta love the real land of the free!
    "People should not fear their governments...governments should fear their people!"

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    Now if we could just get all the other states to be like Vermont.
    Samuel Colt did more for equality in America than any civil rights activist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boy View Post
    I took my 16-year old son to VT for the weekend, staying at a friend's cabin in the boonies. As soon as we hit the border from NH, I stopped the car, we both got out, and I gave him a holstered CZ-82 to hang from his belt. While he's had numerous trips to the range, and has been shooting for about four years, this was the first time he's ever been "strapped." We stopped at Wallyworld for provisions and supplies, where he constantly tugged at his belt. He had no inkling that I was going to "allow" him to open carry, nevermind carry at all. I remember how it was for me when I first carried, but that was in Nam, where everyone and their mother was armed. On our next trip (in Sept. for a gunshow), if he asks, I'll bring his grandfather's WWII 1911A1, which has a 70 year family history, but he's gonna have to hitch his belt tighter or his pants will journey south!
    Be very careful. You violated Federal law, 18 USC 922 (x). Is it really worth it to take the chance of you both losing your firearms rights?
    Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman. Amerika: a place where the serfs are afraid of the action the police may take against them for perfectly legal behavior.

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    "Be very careful. You violated Federal law, 18 USC 922 (x). Is it really worth it to take the chance of you both losing your firearms rights?"

    I believe this restriction excludes parents or guardians. Right!
    NRA RSO, NRA and MA Pistol Instructor. MA (LTC-A), NH (PL), ME (CP), AZ (CWP), FL (CWP). RVN 69-70. 4th ID and 1st Log

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Boy View Post
    "Be very careful. You violated Federal law, 18 USC 922 (x). Is it really worth it to take the chance of you both losing your firearms rights?"

    I believe this restriction excludes parents or guardians. Right!
    Respectfully, no. All of the conditions (i) through (iv) below must be met for a person <18 years to be provided with a handgun (see the "and" between (iii) and (iv)):

    (3) This subsection does not apply to—

    (A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile—

    (i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;

    (ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile’s parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except—

    (I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgun in a locked container directly from the place of transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly from the place at which such an activity took place to the transferor; or
    (II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as described in clause (i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the juvenile’s parent or legal guardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law from possessing a firearm;

    (iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile’s possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and

    (iv) in accordance with State and local law;
    You did not meet (i) because you weren't at the location of the activity and the gun was not being transported in a case.
    You did not meet (ii) because your permission was not given to your son in writing.
    You did not meet (iii) because your son did not have written permission in his possession.
    You did, however, meet (iv).

    Here's the prohibition from the statute:

    (x)
    (1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
    (A) a handgun; or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
    (2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—
    (A) a handgun; or
    (B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
    And here is the definition of juvenile from the statute:

    (5) For purposes of this subsection, the term “juvenile” means a person who is less than 18 years of age.
    Source:
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

    Thoughts?
    Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman. Amerika: a place where the serfs are afraid of the action the police may take against them for perfectly legal behavior.

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    "Thoughts?"

    Esoteric to say the least.
    NRA RSO, NRA and MA Pistol Instructor. MA (LTC-A), NH (PL), ME (CP), AZ (CWP), FL (CWP). RVN 69-70. 4th ID and 1st Log

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    State law preempts Federal law.
    Tolerance of the intolerant leads to the destruction of tolerance. “You are also reminded that any inappropriate remarks or jokes concerning security may result in your arrest,” in the land of the free.

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