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Open carry confrontation

This is a discussion on Open carry confrontation within the Open Carry Discussion forums, part of the Main Category category; The last time I suggested we go into the cc sub forum and start some ridiculous threads, members actually did ...

  1. #11
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    The last time I suggested we go into the cc sub forum and start some ridiculous threads, members actually did it...Should I suggest it again? Be kind of fun...What do you guys say? Troll the conceal forums? Just remember, twist up meanings, put words in others mouths, and deny deny deny!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefighterchen View Post
    The last time I suggested we go into the cc sub forum and start some ridiculous threads, members actually did it...Should I suggest it again? Be kind of fun...What do you guys say? Troll the conceal forums? Just remember, twist up meanings, put words in others mouths, and deny deny deny!!!
    Nah. Let's not stoop to the level of those who'd deprive us of our right to OC. They (we know who they are) often insist that we are looking for a fight because we OC and I am always happy to prove 'em wrong. They oughtta be used to that by now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmann73 View Post
    i hear a lot about confrontations with law enforcement as well as companies regarding open carry, and i thought i would post my thoughts. I live in utah and i am tattooed with sleeves i also dress in jeans and a t-shirt. As a result of my "look" i get many people who say i am intimidating(lol i am not), and others who say i look like a criminal(again i am not). The point i want to get to is, i do have a ccw permit but at times i do open carry. I have had my share of encounters with law enforcement and stores i walk into. I always remain calm and talk and it is my demeaner that helps with these encounters. I also understand that in the case of law enforcement they are just doing their job, and if i called i would want them to do them same, so when they talk to me i can be like all of those people on you tube showing they know the law (rediculous) or i can just work with what they want and get out of there a lot quicker, so what if they ask for id, i have nothing to hide. As far as companies, well they have the right to refuse our guns, if i am asked to leave i do so and leave them with a card that says they also lost my money and explains why they should allow law abiding citizens in with their guns. But if i want to avoid all of these things i carry concealed.

    Not only do i avoid stupid conflicts but in the event something does happen where i need my weapon for defense i have the element of suprise instead of a "target." if you are sitting down to dinner and a person comes in to rob the place and see's your gun in the open you become a target. If he doesn't see it you are most likely ignored allowing you to do your part to defend the lives of those with you.

    Again these are my thoughts and i am not saying they are right but rather they are right for me.
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    The few times I've open carried, I've been dressed in a button-down dress shirt and nice jeans. I've never had a confrontation. In fact, I've had several people ask what type of undercover work I did!

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    What people don't seem to understand is if all these guys on YouTube videotaping their confrontations with cops even though they are legally right, it leaves abad taste in the cops mouth as well as the public who sees these videos. When open carriers go traipsing about in large groups as a show of solidarity it may also result in poor public image. You might say who cares, we need to educate these folks, we're doing nothing illegal and exercising our god given and government given rights.
    While that is all true and good, how do you think these people will vote when it comes time for a bill allowing further gun rights to be passed? Open carry was criminalizes in CA for the same reason. Open carry in my opinion is fine, but common sense and care should be used when doing so, just like the expression of any right. That is why one doesn't yell fire in a movie theater.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYMike View Post
    *snip* government given rights.*snip*
    This is why the majority of people here don't care if you ever come back to the forum...and a large portion wish you would actually follow through with your hollow threats of abandoning us.

    California lost open carry when they banned loaded open carry, way before they banned it out right. There is no right to carry a firearm in CA anymore, just a privilege because they all hid from the problem. Who are you going to blame for their 10+ round magazine ban, suppressor ban, sbr and sbs extreme restrictions, machine gun restrictions, and all their other ridiculous rules? If CA legislators could take away concealed carry, do you think they would? They are almost there, are you going to blame concealed carriers for that?

    Illinois has no right to carry at all, concealed or open, who do you blame for that?

    Most people wouldn't mind if California broke off and floated away from the US...it seems you would like to put it on the podium and worship their gun laws as an example of how the rest of the US should do their business. California should be shamed and ridiculed for how they handled open carrying, not made the example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYMike View Post
    What people don't seem to understand is if all these guys on YouTube videotaping their confrontations with cops even though they are legally right, it leaves abad taste in the cops mouth as well as the public who sees these videos. When open carriers go traipsing about in large groups as a show of solidarity it may also result in poor public image. You might say who cares, we need to educate these folks, we're doing nothing illegal and exercising our god given and government given rights.
    While that is all true and good, how do you think these people will vote when it comes time for a bill allowing further gun rights to be passed? Open carry was criminalizes in CA for the same reason. Open carry in my opinion is fine, but common sense and care should be used when doing so, just like the expression of any right. That is why one doesn't yell fire in a movie theater.
    Please do some research and discover that the Constitution and Bill of Rights is not a list of what the government allows the people to do... but is a list of what the people allow the government to do.... and what the people do NOT allow the government to do.

    And yes, you do have the right to yell "FIRE" in a movie theater and you won't be arrested if there is a fire... and even if there isn't a fire you still have the right to yell "FIRE" but will be held accountable for the harm that ensues. (Methinks you, like many others, have no clue what the difference between a "right" and the law assessing penalties for harm done while exercising a right is)

    Now about that dreaded "bad image" that OC'ers who dare stand up for the right to bear arms, record the illegal things cops do, and then put it on youtube so the entire world can see cops screwing up...

    In Michigan just a few short years ago OC was virtually unknown. A few, a very few, courageous guys got together, heavily researched the laws, and decided to give it a go... everywhere it was legal to do so. And they were immediately hassled, some arrested, sometimes violently arrested... and they audio and/or audio video recorded everything. Of course the media jumped on it and sensationalized every encounter. But it all backfired because....

    The end result of those "in your face gonna give gun owners a bad name and they should hide their guns in shame like real men do" open carriers was.....

    The open carriers won their cases in court, the police depts. and their respective municipality's were sued.. and had to pay damages to the open carriers plus the police had to undergo court ordered! retraining about open carry .. because the open carriers won.

    It got to the point where the Michigan State Police sent a legal update (follow the link below):

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf

    to every police dept. in the State.

    Because of folks standing up for their right to carry a gun in plain sight against police who tried to squash that right the police have been educated as to the legality of open carry. Look closely at those youtube videos... even the one's where the open carrier is purposefully being provocative... who is causing the commotion? The open carrier doing nothing illegal? Or the cops busting his chops.. and in some cases the cops are behaving illegally!!!... because they don't like open carry?

    The media's sensationalizing frenzy ended up informing the people of Michigan that not only was open carry legal (and has been legal since 1837!!!!!) for ordinary law abiding people .... and that no permit is required!

    And as open carry has become more and more prevalent so has the public's acceptance of ordinary people walking around going about their daily lives... wearing a gun in plain sight... become commonplace.

    None of all those positive advances for the right to bear arms would have happened if those few guys, and those who have/and are still following in their footsteps, had listened to the folks who yak about how open carry will give gun owner's a bad image.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYMike View Post
    What people don't seem to understand is if all these guys on YouTube videotaping their confrontations with cops even though they are legally right, it leaves abad taste in the cops mouth as well as the public who sees these videos. When open carriers go traipsing about in large groups as a show of solidarity it may also result in poor public image. You might say who cares, we need to educate these folks, we're doing nothing illegal and exercising our god given and government given rights.
    While that is all true and good, how do you think these people will vote when it comes time for a bill allowing further gun rights to be passed? Open carry was criminalizes in CA for the same reason. Open carry in my opinion is fine, but common sense and care should be used when doing so, just like the expression of any right. That is why one doesn't yell fire in a movie theater.
    Interesting... are you saying that because people legally exercising their rights leave a bad taste in cop's mouths people shouldn't ... exercise their rights? Surely you are not advocating that people should give up their rights just because the cops don't like people actually exercising their rights?

    Are you also saying that folks should give up their rights in fear that other folks might vote to take those rights away because other people don't like folks actually exercising their rights? Please tell me what the difference is between not exercising a right because you are afraid it might be taken away... and having it taken away? Either way you still aren't able to exercise the right!

    Or perhaps you are merely using those arguments as a way of expressing that YOU don't like folks exercising the right to bear arms by open carrying?

    Oh... and the saga of the right to bear arms in CA is far from over because the whole thing isn't about the right to bear arms but is all about the government having the power to eliminate rights... any and all rights.

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    Don't want to start a fight. Just commenting... okay?
    I have a CHL, and do carry always, except where it's illegal to do so. I wish Texas allowed open carry... I would do so. 'Nuff said about that.

    My comment is that I just spent a couple of months in the vicinity of South Fork, Colorado, and not once did I spot anyone openly carrying a handgun, and I was looking. I wondered why I didn't see anyone wearing a gun... other than LEO, that is. Any ideas?
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYMike View Post
    What people don't seem to understand is if all these guys on YouTube videotaping their confrontations with cops even though they are legally right, it leaves abad taste in the cops mouth as well as the public who sees these videos.
    Why? Is it because incompetent LEOs hate being recorded as they violate people's Rights? As an LEO myself, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when my professional brethen lack the ability to discern the bonafide exercise of one's Rights from a criminal violation. I suppose it might also irritate the public seeing their tax dollars being used to pay the salaries of Officers whose incomptence will likely result in the distribution of even more of their tax dollars to pay five- and six-figure settlements to people whose Rights have been violated under such circumstances. I know it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, too, 'cause I have to go out and deal with the public after their expectations have been lowered by seeing such incompetence. Trust me- that's a real delight.


    Quote Originally Posted by NYMike View Post
    When open carriers go traipsing about in large groups as a show of solidarity it may also result in poor public image. You might say who cares, we need to educate these folks, we're doing nothing illegal and exercising our god given and government given rights. While that is all true and good, how do you think these people will vote when it comes time for a bill allowing further gun rights to be passed?
    Great. Now we're gonna blame the victim (OCers) for the offense (offending the Left and the anti's)?

    Just because a small group of people gets "a case of the vapors" when they see an openly carried firearm, that doesn't mean that the folks protesting governmental mis-, mal-, and non-feasance are the problem. Your perspective as offered is akin to arresting someone who is OCing for Disorderly Conduct or Inducing Panic, both offenses require a predicate offense to substantiate the charge. OC CANNOT be a an offense if it is being exercised as a Right or wherever it is deemed a legal activity.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYMike View Post
    Open carry was criminalizes in CA for the same reason. Open carry in my opinion is fine, but common sense and care should be used when doing so, just like the expression of any right. That is why one doesn't yell fire in a movie theater.

    Yelling "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater when there is not a fire is a criminal offense- Making False Alarms, Inducing Panic, Disturbing the Peace.

    OC, where it is a Right or legal, is not in and of itself a criminal offense, therefore the analogy you've related is not only false, it is also intentionally misleading.

    Given the context of your analogy, it seems that you equate OCers (at least on some level) with criminals.
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