Concealed Carry Permit Holder Abuse In Nevada

[Bohemian]

Outrageous

Your action is needed in a few ways. Please take the time to read how you can help secure a better Nevada for all gun owners.
Many of you have already read the Vin Suprynowicz article in the Sunday LVRJ. If you have not, please do so now:
VIN SUPRYNOWICZ: Handcuffed, disarmed for obeying the law - Opinion - ReviewJournal.com

Again, please read his article before continuing with this message. It is important that you understand the context of this alert.
After reading Vin’s article you might be wondering why Nevada has a CCW requirement (concealed firearms permit or license). Most of the emails and phones calls that we’ve received about Vin’s article are asking this question. From a voice mail message:
“Why should anyone get a concealed carry permit to then be treated with suspicion after dialing 911 as the victim of a crime?”
And frankly, GONV would like to know that answer as well. Mr. Mitchener was violated twice. Once by those who broke into his place of business and again by “the system.”
GONV called Sheriff Doug Gillespie in an attempt to get some answers but he was “unavailable.”
GONV was able to reach Vin Suprynowicz. We spoke for only a few minutes but long enough to get even more irritated at a system that is increasingly putting law abiding gun owners in an untenable position. We are required to have a permission slip from the government to carry a firearm but presenting this government issued credential puts us, the law abiding tax payer, in a position of being treated like criminals. One has to wonder, why bother?

Every law abiding gun owner in this state is at risk of infringements like this and many more. When a citizen calls the police in response to a crime and presents to the responding officer the appropriate ID and CCW and then that innocent citizen is presumed guilty, handcuffed and stuffed in the back of a patrol car, that is an egregious violation.
Nevada gun laws are, quite simply, an insult and an attack on the free people who live in this state. And GONV needs you to help change things if all are to live unencumbered of government bureaucracy. Outrageous and unconstitutional regulations have done little to reduce crime but put law-abiding CCW holders at risk.

Several things need to be done. First, Sheriff Gilespie needs to hear from the voting constituency (via email) that law abiding tax payers will not be treated as criminals when exercising their second amendment rights. Encourage everyone you know to also email the sheriff. See the bottom of this alert for the email address and suggested text. Spread this email around and encourage others to join our email alerts.

Next, for GONV to continue to be successful, we must count on financial support from individuals like you. Your contribution of even $10 is urgently needed today. If you have donated already, please know that we are very grateful. If you have not, please consider joining us in this fight. Nevada gun owners need to stand united. GONV needs you. Please go here to donate online. GONV | Gun Owners of Nevada

Freedom is not free. So please make a donation and ask your family and friends to do the same.

Most importantly, Sheriff Doug Gillespie needs to hear from you.
sheriff@lvmpd.com
Sheriff Doug Gillespie:
As a law-abiding gun owner, I was outraged by the treatment of Mr. Mitchener as represented in the LVRJ column by Vin Suprynowicz. I demand to know what is being done to stop abuses on law abiding citizens. The circumstances of Mr. Mitchner’s treatment at the hands of the police were no different than a victim of rape being treated as the guilty party.
Officers of the law take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution.
• What is the LVMPD policy when encountering a lawful CCW holder who has initiated a call to the police because he/she has been the victim of a crime?
• Was that policy followed?

• If not, will officer J. Rogers receive corrective action (be terminated)?
Law abiding gun owner,

If you choose to write your own letter, or to call (702-828-3231) the sheriff, please let him know that you want an unambiguous answer to your concerns about how CCW holders should be treated when they call 911 because they have been a victim of a crime.
And demand that action be taken to correct this situation from ever happening again.
Please forward any responses you receive to info@gonv.org.



I will add, if you have ever visited Las Vegas, Nevada or plan to in the future; to do something similar to what Gun Owners of Nevada has itemized herein...

[Ozark_II]

Thanks for the post Bohemian. I spent many years in law enforcement. I can say I made a few arrests that, while within lawful parameters, were unwise as I look back. I was young and inexperienced. Fortunately there were many seasoned officers around who helped guide me into maturity as a police officer. After a "lawful" arrest which I probably should not have wasted my time with I would get together with the city attorney and discuss the case. Most of the time we would agree to drop the charges. When I became a Field Training Officer I would pass on what I had learned to my rookies in hopes that common sense would meet with safety and procedure in their minds to keep them safe and to avoid "letter of the law" arrests.

Many new officers are zealous in their pursuit of perfection when enforcing the law. Departments need to teach their recruits a real world definition of perfection. It is a culmination of not only the knowledge of the law but the understanding of its proper application.

An arrest is defined as "Taking someone into the custody of the law and depriving them of their civil liberties". Based on that definition the gentleman in the article was in fact arrested without probable cause or reasonable suspicion that he had committed a crime. Therefore, if the article is accurate, the arrest was, in my opinion, unlawful.

Since I did not witness the event I must reserve judgment

[Jim_Macklin]

Some people should not be cops.

I'm not a robber or a burglar, so I';m just guessing that criminals don't carry ID and present themselves to a responding officer.
But just for an example, how would this officer have handled a traffic stop?

If the driver was lawfully armed, would she have arrested him, cuffed him, locked him in her patrol car and taken possession of his gun, knives, and paperwork? How about the passengers, would they have been proned-out, cuffed and confined?

At teh least this particular officer needs more training.

I can say this, in Kansas, most of the officers are unconcerned with teh licensed and background check CC citizen.

[Minuteman]

When a person is on their own, must act quickly in an urgent situation and does not have full confidence in their abilities to perform, there is a tendency to over re-act without using rational thinking. This was apparently one of those times. The officer in this situation should learn from this and hopefully become a better cop. Professionalism is gained through time and butt chewings it doesn't magically appear upon graduation from the academy. We don't throw people away for mistakes that are not catastrophes. This was a person trying to do the job and go home safely after the shift. If you have never been in a similar situation where your judgment was wrong your either very lucky or a saint.

[FN1910]

Another article intended to incite the masses to join their cause with a exaggeration of the underlying facts of what happened. The officer investigating did not handle things as they should have been and I am sure will handle it differently with experience and training. The writer tried to make it sound as if it would have been much better for Mr. Mitchener if he had not had a permit and just carried his gun in his waistband. How about the other two times that police had been called and nothing happened, would they have doen the same with the gun in the waistband.

I could never be a LEO as I couldn't put up with the BS from the public being cursed out continually, beat upon when least expected then supposed being able to determine whether someone is a good guy or bad guy before ever walking up to them. For example in the vast majority of traffic stops no problems ever arise but as we gun owners like to always be prepared the LEO also has to be prepared for someone pulling a gun on a traffic stop. I know that you are a good guy and are not planning on blowing the LEO away for stopping you for running the red light but how is the LEO to know that until he actually stops and asks you. Even then how is he to know you won't while driving away?

I am not trying to justify the actions of the officer in the OP at all as it was handled poorly at best. However I don't like the tone of the writer trying to make it sound like Mr. Mitchener faced the Spanish Inquisitiion for having a permit. This is the exact same methods the the liberal left use and frankly I am getting tired of the BS from both sides.

[Jim_Macklin]

Another article intended to incite the masses to join their cause with a exaggeration of the underlying facts of what happened. The officer investigating did not handle things as they should have been and I am sure will handle it differently with experience and training. The writer tried to make it sound as if it would have been much better for Mr. Mitchener if he had not had a permit and just carried his gun in his waistband. How about the other two times that police had been called and nothing happened, would they have doen the same with the gun in the waistband.

I could never be a LEO as I couldn't put up with the BS from the public being cursed out continually, beat upon when least expected then supposed being able to determine whether someone is a good guy or bad guy before ever walking up to them. For example in the vast majority of traffic stops no problems ever arise but as we gun owners like to always be prepared the LEO also has to be prepared for someone pulling a gun on a traffic stop. I know that you are a good guy and are not planning on blowing the LEO away for stopping you for running the red light but how is the LEO to know that until he actually stops and asks you. Even then how is he to know you won't while driving away?

I am not trying to justify the actions of the officer in the OP at all as it was handled poorly at best. However I don't like the tone of the writer trying to make it sound like Mr. Mitchener faced the Spanish Inquisitiion for having a permit. This is the exact same methods the the liberal left use and frankly I am getting tired of the BS from both sides.

The author was not suggesting that the gun be carried, but was questioning the training and procedures of the PD as regards Licensed, background checked and trained private citizens as compared to what a officer could or might do with an unlicensed individual.
If a CCH/CCW licensee is not to be trusted, why should a LEO be trusted, they have basically the same background check and the same basic firearms training. LEO gets more training in law, arrest procedures, radio procedures, but most departments actual firearm,s training is only slightly more than CCH requires and far less than many CCHrs do on their own.

[Bohemian]

Another article intended to incite the masses to join their cause with a exaggeration of the underlying facts of what happened. The officer investigating did not handle things as they should have been and I am sure will handle it differently with experience and training. The writer tried to make it sound as if it would have been much better for Mr. Mitchener if he had not had a permit and just carried his gun in his waistband. How about the other two times that police had been called and nothing happened, would they have doen the same with the gun in the waistband.

I could never be a LEO as I couldn't put up with the BS from the public being cursed out continually, beat upon when least expected then supposed being able to determine whether someone is a good guy or bad guy before ever walking up to them. For example in the vast majority of traffic stops no problems ever arise but as we gun owners like to always be prepared the LEO also has to be prepared for someone pulling a gun on a traffic stop. I know that you are a good guy and are not planning on blowing the LEO away for stopping you for running the red light but how is the LEO to know that until he actually stops and asks you. Even then how is he to know you won't while driving away?

I am not trying to justify the actions of the officer in the OP at all as it was handled poorly at best. However I don't like the tone of the writer trying to make it sound like Mr. Mitchener faced the Spanish Inquisitiion for having a permit. This is the exact same methods the the liberal left use and frankly I am getting tired of the BS from both sides.

I will strongly agree to disagree with you...

The area in question where this occurred is far from a North Las Vegas hood...
It is an upscale neighborhood that has been targeted by gang-bangers & other criminals...

As a resident just north of this location; & Concealed Carry Permit holder in Nevada myself, WHOM HAS been pulled over and reported similar crimes; my response as early as possible in a inquiry as always been "I have a concealed carry permit & I am carrying"... when asked if I had any weapons...

Occasionally, I have been asked what type of weapon(s) I am carrying & where they are; never have I been asked to surrender the weapon or even display it for further inspection...

I have yet to be arrested or cuffed & stuffed even once as a result...

Gun Owners of Nevada response & request is right on track and totally justified...

This female police officer is no rookie & has a long history of bias in regards to Firearm Owners, good guys or bad guys; accidental discharge of her firearm while a suspect lay cuffed & stuffed face down on the side walk while being restrained by another officer...
Further, is generally known for having a chip on her shoulder...

The response by this police officer was atypical for any police officer I have ever encountered or personally know in Nevada or elsewhere.

With possibly the exception of the Los Angeles Police where they treat you like a KING while you are crawling away, unarmed on your hands and knees...

But I digress...

[gunshrink]

I will strongly agree to disagree with you...

This female police officer is no rookie & has a long history of bias in regards to Firearm Owners, good guys or bad guys; accidental discharge of her firearm while a suspect lay cuffed & stuffed face down on the side walk while being restrained by another officer...
Further, is generally known for having a chip on her shoulder...

The response by this police officer was atypical for any police officer I have ever encountered or personally know in Nevada or elsewhere.

With possibly the exception of the Los Angeles Police where they treat you like a KING while you are crawling away, unarmed on your hands and knees...

But I digress...

Is this the female LV officer who is on the clip that is on YouTube? I have used that in my class many times. If not then then they have many like this.

Glad I don't like going to Vegas.