A look into the world of the DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST PERSPECTIVE

[bigrebnc1861]

Something I noticed and thought I would highlight and maybe start a discussion on.

So we need to assess what has happened to this more long-term crisis for capitalism.

It’s clear that the ecological crisis has a pervasive impact, and is increasingly linking together with the economic crisis. And on top of this, imperialism is bogged down in its war in Afghanistan.

So we have to assess what is the meaning of the change in US, and hence world, political leadership expressed in the change from Bush to Obama. How has that affected the international political situation? Is there no difference at all, as some on the left would argue?

Or as Fidel Castro has expressed, in the transitional formulation, the “Good Obama” and the “Bad Obama”; which face will we see today, or will we see both faces every day? Or in the variation by President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, there are the public faces of “Obama 1” and “Obama 2”: and we need to highlight the contradiction between the two.

We know that the job description of US President hasn’t changed: It is to defend the interests of US imperialism, and in the broader sense, world imperialism. But there are some tactical shifts in approach, compared to the all-out, George Bush approach of, “If you’re not with us, you’re with the terrorists.”
International situation report (October 2009 DSP National Committee plenum) | DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST PERSPECTIVE

Why is there concern in the world over the President of the United States?

[OUTTAHERE]

im·pe·ri·al·ism
   /ɪmˈpɪəriəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled[im-peer-ee-uh-liz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies.

Let's see, how many "colonies" does the US now have? Germany? NO. France? NO. Any European country we helped liberate from Nazi Germany? NO. South Korea? NO. Viet Nam? NO. Iraq? NO. Afganistan? Not likely either. I fail to see
where Imperialism even comes into our picture. The only land we've ever ASKED for during or after foreign conflicts is a
place to bury our dead.

The change in the US is the goal of keeping our military engaged abroad, any where. In my opinion, it's gone way beyond
helping others or even helping ourselves by killing terrorists. To me, it's part of a two fold plan. 1. Keep our military deployed to help deplete our supplies of equipment and of qualified personnel. Run down the morale of those willing to
fight for our country; it's a "volunteer" military these days. Weaken our country by keeping them deployed and away from their family and friends as much as possible. 2. Further drain our economy and weaken our financial
stability even more. Wars are terribly expensive and we're still fighting two of them with no foreseeable end to at least
one of them. Why do these two things? Because it's the path of least resistance. Americans have always supported our
troops and our Presidents choice to put them in harm's way so it's easy to use them as another tool to weaken our
country.

I believe that what we're seeing is the dismantling of our Republic from within, and it's not just Obama that's bringing this about. What we now have is a group of dedicated elitists who have long ago devised a plan to change the US from a
Capitalist country to a Socialist country. Basically destroy the country that has shared so much of what it creates with the
rest of the world and is always the first one to help others in times of disaster, natural or man made. What's going on is
nothing more than a political and power grab for the benefit of a few at the expense of all others, regardless. What we're
witnessing is the largest transfer of wealth ever in the history of the world and the recipients of all of this wealth will be the
collective rulers of the world, but in a new form. Welcome to the New World Order. Two more election cycles and we will
be finished if we don't stop this madness, IF we even can at this point.

[bigrebnc1861]

OUTTAHERE you bring some great insight to the discussion. I agree this is leading to the NWO.

[Charles Cooper]

a group...long ago devised a plan to change the US from a Capitalist country to a Socialist country.

I wouldn't worry about it, Mr. Out. The plan has obviously failed. We're not even close to an economic system where the means of industrial production is owned and operated by the government for the benefit of the people.

[OUTTAHERE]

I wouldn't worry about it, Mr. Out. The plan has obviously failed. We're not even close to an economic system where the means of industrial production is owned and operated by the government for the benefit of the people.

Obviously failed???? Hmmm, try telling that to the bond and stock holders of GM, Chrysler and AIG. Now
they're nationalizing and socializing health care. I'd suggest you take off your rose colored glasses Mr.
Cooper. I don't mean to offend you sir, but it's people like you who do not, or will not, see what is happening to this once great country. I won't bother to rehash things previously mentioned, but I will add that once our dollar collapses, and it will collapse, what do you think is going to happen. Do you really think that we'll just pick up the pieces, dust ourselves off, and get back to work?

Get back to work at what? Our manufacturing base, that is the true wealth of any country, has been slowly
disappearing for 25 years now and there are no mechanisms or plans to rebuild it either. We can not
successfully survive as a service economy, we can only barely survive as such. With out new, well paying jobs, we are going no where.

Think about this. Let's say that we currently have 15 million people either out of work or under employed who would gladly go to work in any type of manufacturing job suitable or close to suitable to their skill sets. In order to put those people, plus about 100,000 new graduates every month, back to work, you would
have to create 1 million jobs A MONTH to put them all back to work in 15 months, 30 months to put 1/2 million people per month back to work and 60 months to put 250,000 people per month back to work. Do
you see THAT happening. While job losses and new unemployment claims seem to be dropping, that just
means that we're bleeding less badly. If you believe the govt/media hype that we've turned the corner
then I hope that you are prepared for what is headed our way.

Respectfully,

Outtahere

[HK4U]

I wouldn't worry about it, Mr. Out. The plan has obviously failed. We're not even close to an economic system where the means of industrial production is owned and operated by the government for the benefit of the people.

for the benefit of the people. Now that is pretty humorous.

[wolfhunter]

Chuck-
I'll agree with you. we're not as close to a Socialist state as you'd like. The DSA and their mental kindred have backed away from outright Socialism for the most part. Instead they are attempting to move to a Fascist government where industry may still be privately owned but a select elite few (Federal politicians) dictate how those industries will operate. Is it a coincidence that after the government bought GM, the automaker with one of the best quality records is suddenly having major recalls and being forced to provide their procedures, policies and techniques to a panel of what are essentially Stockholders in a competing company? Sounds like an attempt to discredit Toyota while gaining their trade secrets, and thereby driving them to a smaller percentage of the market, if not out of business altogether.

[Charles Cooper]

try telling that to the bond and stock holders of GM

To GM bond and stock holders:

There is no plan for the government to assume ownership and control of the means of production for the befifit of the people.

Sincerely,

Charles Cooper

Now they're nationalizing and socializing health care.

Nope. You're wrong. The government is not assuming ownership and control of the means of providing health care or health care insurance. You're confusing a little common sense regulation with tyranny.

I'd suggest you take off your rose colored glasses Mr. Cooper. I don't mean to offend you sir, but it's people like you who do not, or will not, see what is happening to this once great country. I won't bother to rehash things previously mentioned, but I will add that once our dollar collapses, and it will collapse, what do you think is going to happen. Do you really think that we'll just pick up the pieces, dust ourselves off, and get back to work?

What makes you think the dollar is about to collapse?

Our manufacturing base has been slowly disappearing for 25 years now

I told you free trade was a bad idea.

Think about this. Let's say that we currently have 15 million people either out of work or under employed who would gladly go to work in any type of manufacturing job suitable or close to suitable to their skill sets. In order to put those people, plus about 100,000 new graduates every month, back to work, you would have to create 1 million jobs A MONTH to put them all back to work in 15 months, 30 months to put 1/2 million people per month back to work and 60 months to put 250,000 people per month back to work. Do you see THAT happening. While job losses and new unemployment claims seem to be dropping, that just means that we're bleeding less badly. If you believe the govt/media hype that we've turned the corner then I hope that you are prepared for what is headed our way.

Think about this. We need Big Government to solve Big Economic Problems.

[HK4U]

Think about this. We need Big Government to solve Big Economic Problems.

because it has worked so well up until now not only in this country but others. NOT.

[Charles Cooper]

Chuck-I'll agree with you. we're not as close to a Socialist state as you'd like.

In my view, we are already a Socialist State, according to the way many conservatives use the word "Socialism", to signify any attempt by the people, acting as a body politic, to make their lives better than they could by acting in their individual capacities.

If you say Social Security is Socialism, that's fine with me. I'll be happy to stand with the overwhelming majority of Americans who are Socialists and favor preserving our system of Social Security.