Both Interesting and Sad

[NCIC105]

A little history most people will never know.

Interesting Veterans Statistics off the Vietnam Memorial Wall

There are 58,267 names now listed on that polished black wall, including those added in 2010.

The names are arranged in the order in which they were taken from us by date and within each date the names are alphabetized. It is hard to believe it is 36 years since the last casualties.

The first known casualty was Richard B. Fitzgibbon, of North Weymouth , Mass. Listed by the U.S. Department of Defense as having been killed on June 8, 1956. His name is listed on the Wall with that of his son, Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Richard B. Fitzgibbon III, who was killed on Sept. 7, 1965.

There are three sets of fathers and sons on the Wall.

39,996 on the Wall were just 22 or younger.

8,283 were just 19 years old.

The largest age group, 33,103 were 18 years old.

12 soldiers on the Wall were 17 years old.

5 soldiers on the Wall were 16 years old.

One soldier, PFC Dan Bullock was 15 years old.

997 soldiers were killed on their first day in Vietnam ..

1,448 soldiers were killed on their last day in Vietnam ..

31 sets of brothers are on the Wall.

Thirty one sets of parents lost two of their sons.

54 soldiers attended Thomas Edison High School in Philadelphia . I wonder why so many from one school.

8 Women are on the Wall. Nursing the wounded.

244 soldiers were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War; 153 of them are on the Wall.

Beallsville , Ohio with a population of 475 lost 6 of her sons.

West Virginia had the highest casualty rate per capita in the nation. There are 711 West Virginians on the Wall.

The Marines of Morenci - They led some of the scrappiest high school football and basketball teams that the little Arizona copper town of Morenci (pop. 5,058) had ever known and cheered. They enjoyed roaring beer busts. In quieter moments, they rode horses along the Coronado Trail, stalked deer in the Apache National Forest . And in the patriotic camaraderie typical of Morenci's mining families, the nine graduates of Morenci High enlisted as a group in the Marine Corps. Their service began on Independence Day, 1966. Only 3 returned home.

The Buddies of Midvale - LeRoy Tafoya, Jimmy Martinez, Tom Gonzales were all boyhood friends and lived on three consecutive streets in Midvale, Utah on Fifth, Sixth and Seventh avenues. They lived only a few yards apart. They played ball at the adjacent sandlot ball field. And they all went to Vietnam . In a span of 16 dark days in late 1967, all three would be killed. LeRoy was killed on Wednesday, Nov. 22, the fourth anniversary of John F. Kennedy's assassination. Jimmy died less than 24 hours later on Thanksgiving Day. Tom was shot dead assaulting the enemy on Dec. 7, Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day.

The most casualty deaths for a single day was on January 31, 1968 ~ 245 deaths.

The most casualty deaths for a single month was May 1968 - 2,415 casualties were incurred.

For most Americans who read this they will only see the numbers that the Vietnam War created. To those of us who survived the war, and to the families of those who did not, we see the faces, we feel the pain that these numbers created. We are, until we too pass away, haunted with these numbers, because they were our friends, fathers, husbands, wives, sons and daughters. There are no noble wars, just noble warriors.

MAY GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS AND PROTECT THEM.

We owe them a great debit!

[tuts40]

I wonder if that was the first war that we as a country, meaning the political leaders, fought short of full-out. Did we have what some soldiers in Afghanistan/Iraq refer to as "silly" and "ineffective" rules of engagement back in the Vietnam war as well? If so, did that contribute to the less than desirable outcome, such as many say is happening today? I don't know anything, really, about Vietnam but I do know several recent vets and I wonder how the stories they tell of the rules of engagement that hogtie them in battle might well be similar to any that might have existed in Vietnam and if that contributed to the "numbers"...

Anyway, thanx for the numbers and the thoughts accompanying them. Truly sad indeed.

[maybejim]

I wonder if that was the first war that we as a country, meaning the political leaders, fought short of full-out. Did we have what some soldiers in Afghanistan/Iraq refer to as "silly" and "ineffective" rules of engagement back in the Vietnam war as well? If so, did that contribute to the less than desirable outcome, such as many say is happening today? I don't know anything, really, about Vietnam but I do know several recent vets and I wonder how the stories they tell of the rules of engagement that hogtie them in battle might well be similar to any that might have existed in Vietnam and if that contributed to the "numbers"...

Anyway, thanx for the numbers and the thoughts accompanying them. Truly sad indeed.

No, the first war we fought not to win was Korea.

[BIGJOHN621]

Many of us have no idea about what terror the Vietnam War was. I hear the stories of my folks and thank heaven I was not part of that era. One lesson, however that my generation seems not to have learned, nor has any generation past, is how to treat our veterans when they come home.

Once again, we have a group of our finest coming home from doing a job they didn't want to do, but did anyway just because they were told to, and are facing uncertainty. All we hear of us budget cuts and politics.

When will we commit to take care of ALL of our veterans?

When will we not treat those who stand up for us as a disposable commodity?

What generation will treat our heroes as heroes and work to fix their lives no matter long it takes?

I for one am sick of the way we treat those coming home. Instead of the garbage we hear in the debates, why isn't this on the agenda?

Sorry for the soap box, it's just a hot issue of mine.

[Grognard Gunny]

Hey, at least the present Vets get a "Thanks for your service." remark instead of "Why didn't you die, baby killer?" or spat at or simply ignored.

My Father and all but two of my Uncles served in WWII. My "plan" was to serve my Country as well. One of the reasons why I stayed in was because of the almost universal disdain with which I (we) were treated upon our return. I didn't think I would fit too well in THAT society. It certainly wasn't what I expected, nor deserved.

There have been two significant society changing incidents in my lifetime, both of which were istrumental in changing our society for the worse. The first was the Viet Nam era. The second was the post 9/11 era, still formulating.

It gets to the point to where one feels an alien in one's own Country. Bizarre as it may seem to a self professed "Patriot". Things have certainly changed around here. Sad part of it is that there are many who are young and/or growing up who don't know and never will that things were "better" once upon a time ago in this once great Nation.

GG

[Grognard Gunny]

Ah, Big John, don't fret about it too much. Free Peoples have always "had mixed feelings" about their military. Quote Runyard Kipling (ca late 1800's):

"Oh it's Tommy this
and Tommy that,
and 'throw him out, the brute!'

But he's the Nation's hero
when the guns begin to shoot."

Ain't nothin' new under the sun.

GG

P.S. "Tommy" has been the British equivalent of "G I Joe" for a long while. The perennial generic "grunt".

[Wyldekard]

Hey, at least the present Vets get a "Thanks for your service." remark instead of "Why didn't you die, baby killer?" or spat at or simply ignored.

My Father and all but two of my Uncles served in WWII. My "plan" was to serve my Country as well. One of the reasons why I stayed in was because of the almost universal disdain with which I (we) were treated upon our return. I didn't think I would fit too well in THAT society. It certainly wasn't what I expected, nor deserved.

There have been two significant society changing incidents in my lifetime, both of which were istrumental in changing our society for the worse. The first was the Viet Nam era. The second was the post 9/11 era, still formulating.

It gets to the point to where one feels an alien in one's own Country. Bizarre as it may seem to a self professed "Patriot". Things have certainly changed around here. Sad part of it is that there are many who are young and/or growing up who don't know and never will that things were "better" once upon a time ago in this once great Nation.

GG

I hear you Gunny! I couldn't take how a peacetime Army ran. Who you know instead of what you know and how you do your job wasn't for me so I got out. I thought going back to my home would work, but the haters and the spitters were there too. After not to long I got in the Civil Service and got myself sent to Europe until things changed back here a little. There was a time in my life where I had lived fully half of it in foreign countries. Those were tough times and like you, I remember when it was much better.

Like someone once said, those that don't learn from their history are doomed to repeat it.

[Tucker's Mom]

Late as it may seem...we should all thank our vets...personally if possible. Most of the members of our flying club are vets (and some still serving). Most are fighter pilots and they truly love their planes. We all love hearing stories from them during our de-briefs (shooting the breeze session). Each conventions and fly-ins that we do, as the chief photographer, I feature one or two of them as my theme in my video presentation. This year together with their brief history in the flying field, I will feature the men who will do the Flying Formation at the Gateway Arch. It is a thrill for them to see themselves, after all these years, that we still recognize their service (and their flying prowess.)

To all the men in service here, a big huge THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.