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Your Church is Next

This is a discussion on Your Church is Next within the Politics forums, part of the Main Category category; Originally Posted by Shoobee After Obama has been re-elected and Romney can go back to his billionaire mansion and clip ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    After Obama has been re-elected and Romney can go back to his billionaire mansion and clip more coupons, and all churches who employ workers are paying for their full health care without church dogma (such as the Earth is the center of the universe) interfering, only then will the issue be completely resolved for OldGrunt, bless his heart. He is cheerleading for the NRA not for the Catholic Church.

    :D
    Nope, still the Catholic Church. I know you keep referring to labor law having to be followed but I think the Church will win out in this case. It will only take one instance of the government overriding the church's stance on it's doctrine to be able to dictate against the Church's other rules and doctrines, all churches, not just the Catholic Church. This has all been foretold by prophecy and is coming into being each and every day. My question is, are you going to be one of those parishoners who just sits back and lets all this happen without a peep, or are you going to be vocal in support of the Church? I, and others, are trying to express our displeasure with what the government is trying to do and prevent abuse of the First Amendment. I couldn't call myself a Catholic if I just sat back and said nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    Youre not saved now either bro. You need to get some good works to go along with your faith. Because faith without works is dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    Ephesians 2:8-10: "For by grace are ye saved through faith: and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." I think we all try to do good works, especially after one has professed their faith in Jesus. Good works just seem to follow due to one's new mindset in the Lord. Good works can be defined in a myriad of ways and God knows our intentions whenever we try to do a good work. I hope we never get down to trying to judge each others good works otherwise, we may definitely get our chimes dinged!
    You can debate James vs Paul all day and never come up with an answer. Hardcore Baptists prefer James.

    Personally when it comes down to it, I have to go with the "red letter" quotes when there are questions about the Epistles:

    "16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    Nothing about works mentioned here. I do try my best to have good works though. James' standards are fairly impossible for a poor sinner like me to meet, I have to hope that Belief and Faith with mediocre works will at least get me in the gate.
    "I don't think that a society that encourages over a million abortions a year....a society that kills out of convenience, i.e., Jack Kevorkian, can not have consequences." --Rush Limbaugh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    Ringo if you travel to Arabia they will give you exactly the same arguments about Mohamet as you are trying to use here.
    Are you sure about this? Have you ever been to Saudi Arabia? I have. I've stayed there with my husband for 6 months (my husband a little bit more...) I'll tell you this story:

    On our way to London for a much needed R & R, we were sitting in business class. There were 8 of us in the middle row. We were actually sitting near one of the aisles. Across the aisles from my husband's seat was an Orthodox Jew, complete with kippah (or yarmulke) in his head. Behind him is an Arab complete with his toga, etc. attire. It was nearly lunch time. My husband just said quietly, "Oh s hit will hit the fan soon" and bowed his head. Here comes the flight attendant. We were given our lunch tray. The Arab looked at his tray over and over again then said to the flight attendant that he can't eat ham. It is pork. FA got his tray and promised him that they might be able to accommodate him but he will have to wait. Another FA came to the Jew, confirmed his surname and asked him if he ordered his special food. The Jew said "yes, I ordered kosher". He was given his tray. The Arab looked at the Jew's lunch tray and like what he saw! It has some beef and vegetables, etc., the works! So he asked the FA why he (pointing to the Jew) gets what he want. The FA said that the Jew ordered his meal when he booked his flight. Anyway the Arab was given his lunch tray later consisting of different cuts of chicken because they (the FA) just did their best to put something together for him.

    After lunch the Arab tapped the Jew's arm and had a word with him. We must all be holding our breaths right then and then. Remember the Arabs and the Jews in "reality" as we read it, hates one another like hell and want to kill one another? Both do not like to eat pork either because pigs wallow in the dirt and it is a dirty animal. Both knows how to speak Arabic perfectly well too. Many must had been observing these two men. I knew we did...Anyway, before we knew it, the Arab was sitting next to the Jew and they were chatting like as if they were old friends. And they were talking in English, English mind you! And loudly. It was a beautiful sight to behold. We all breathe a sigh of relief. No fireworks, no nothing.

    While we as outsiders, in our ignorance we sometimes think that these two cultures will not meet eye to eye and had been ingrained in our minds that all they wanted to do is to kill one another, there are many out there who are tolerant of each other's belief. And here were two young people who even talked of religion without screaming and carrying on as if the God they both believe in is different. If we only learn to get out of our comfort zone, we will also learned how to be tolerant of one another, whether it is about belief in God or in politics. If you do not know, admit you are wrong, do not just throw punches in the air. Be well...live well. And by holy God! LIVE.

    /end of my rant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker's Mom View Post
    don't annoy me everytime I reply to someone else's post. I do not believe that the world will end this coming December, OK?

    Good luck with your scaring other posters in this group.
    Strange that you think my posts pertaining to prophecy are scaring other posters. Who's so stupid as to be afraid of something that they don't believe in? Besides, Prophecy isn't meant to scare us, it's meant to prepare us, but of course you wouldn't know that. I don't believe the world will end this coming December either, in fact I don't believe the world will ever end. Quit your whining and trying to dictate, it's an open forum.
    AMERICA...At Risk Of Being The Best Informed Society That Has Ever Died Of Ignorance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
    Youre not saved now either bro. You need to get some good works to go along with your faith. Because faith without works is dead.
    Let's look at the verse you referenced in it's full context-

    8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”a you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,”b also said, “Do not murder.”c If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!Faith and Deeds14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is uselessd? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”e and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
    James was in fact stressing is support for this-

    Matthew 7-
    15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

    20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.21Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

    22
    Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
    The Wise and Foolish Builders
    24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgrunt View Post
    Ephesians 2:8-10: "For by grace are ye saved through faith: and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." I think we all try to do good works, especially after one has professed their faith in Jesus. Good works just seem to follow due to one's new mindset in the Lord. Good works can be defined in a myriad of ways and God knows our intentions whenever we try to do a good work. I hope we never get down to trying to judge each others good works otherwise, we may definitely get our chimes dinged!
    ^^^Plus 1+^^^

    Quote Originally Posted by fstroupe View Post
    You can debate James vs Paul all day and never come up with an answer. Hardcore Baptists prefer James.

    Personally when it comes down to it, I have to go with the "red letter" quotes when there are questions about the Epistles:

    "16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    Nothing about works mentioned here. I do try my best to have good works though. James' standards are fairly impossible for a poor sinner like me to meet, I have to hope that Belief and Faith with mediocre works will at least get me in the gate
    At first glance it may appear that Paul & James contradict each other. But, they do NOT!

    James was just strongly emphasizing that a TRUE person of FAITH would show it through the life he lived and what he did. In the book of Hebrews chapter 11, Paul further accounted a persons "Acts-of-Obedience-FAITH" (aka "works") as RIGHTEOUSNESS in the eyes of GOD.

    There is absolutely ZERO contradiction between the teaching of Paul and the teaching of James!

    I really like this thread-
    Thanks to all that have participated & stuck it out. It's clear there is a lot of passion here. I hope we can keep it passionate without anger or indignation. (Not addressed to anyone particular; just gentle reminders)

    Colossians 4:
    -5Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. 6Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone. 6Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
    Ephesians 4:26
    BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger
    James 1-
    19My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.

    -

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    For the record, I have Shoobee on ignore and would not have seen him calling me "bro" unless someone quoted him. I am probably not being a good Christian in saying this, but you are not my "bro" Shoobee. My brothers and sisters are not sh!t-stirrers who seek to find fault with others' convictions rather than discuss whatever issues are on the table in a genuine and honest exchange of ideas. Please put me back on ignore. You did it before. I consider it a failure that I have given you any reason to take me off of it.

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    i consider you all my sisters and brothers and love you all in my heart even though we far apart, because we, in the larger scope, truly are all related. we are one.. that's why it called the uni-verse =one word together as one as well sovereign beings at the sanme time..
    we may not like what some of our extended family do,

    that is why jesus buddha mohammed ..........-pick one/ said 'do unto others as you would have done to you' and said in so many ways.. treat your neighbor as you treat yourself . do not onto others what you don't want they do to you ...same idea round the globe amongst jews muslims mystics shamans christians buddhist hindu so on and so forth this is not exclusive to christianity is my point
    however the reason why this was a rule of the land was because they understood we are all one! and yes our brothers keepers so to speak, yet so many don't live up to that conscious level of understanding the purpose of life is to love one another; plain and simple... as you love yourself.
    folks can spout scripture all day long but do they practice the talk?
    that is where it makes a difference 'manna'fests and comes to light . so we all co creators of all that is and will be.....

    “Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
    Watch your words, for they become actions.
    Watch your actions, for they become habits.
    Watch your habits, for they become character.
    Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    Let's look at the verse you referenced in it's full context-
    James was in fact stressing is support for this-

    At first glance it may appear that Paul & James contradict each other. But, they do NOT!

    James was just strongly emphasizing that a TRUE person of FAITH would show it through the life he lived and what he did. In the book of Hebrews chapter 11, Paul further accounted a persons "Acts-of-Obedience-FAITH" (aka "works") as RIGHTEOUSNESS in the eyes of GOD.

    There is absolutely ZERO contradiction
    between the teaching of Paul and the teaching of James!
    -
    Exactly. And people don't reject the Bible because the Bible contradicts itself, people reject the Bible because the Bible contradicts them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    Let's look at the verse you referenced in it's full context-

    James was in fact stressing is support for this-

    ^^^Plus 1+^^^


    At first glance it may appear that Paul & James contradict each other. But, they do NOT!

    James was just strongly emphasizing that a TRUE person of FAITH would show it through the life he lived and what he did. In the book of Hebrews chapter 11, Paul further accounted a persons "Acts-of-Obedience-FAITH" (aka "works") as RIGHTEOUSNESS in the eyes of GOD.

    There is absolutely ZERO contradiction between the teaching of Paul and the teaching of James!

    I really like this thread-
    Thanks to all that have participated & stuck it out. It's clear there is a lot of passion here. I hope we can keep it passionate without anger or indignation. (Not addressed to anyone particular; just gentle reminders)


    -
    Nice Bible study TCox.

    Just don't forget that your words, your deeds, and your thoughts will all go into your final judgment at judgment day. All of them.

    So nobody is safe until then.

    Simple minded Protestants who love to say and think that their fight is over and they have already won are in ignorance and error.

    They will all need very good works to get into the Kingdom Of Heaven, the foundation of which has been laid by grace, and the qualification for which is faith AND good works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fstroupe View Post
    You can debate James vs Paul all day and never come up with an answer. Hardcore Baptists prefer James.

    Personally when it comes down to it, I have to go with the "red letter" quotes when there are questions about the Epistles:

    "16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

    Nothing about works mentioned here. I do try my best to have good works though. James' standards are fairly impossible for a poor sinner like me to meet, I have to hope that Belief and Faith with mediocre works will at least get me in the gate.
    All good points, FS. And well said.

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