Do you care what really happened on September 11, 2001?

[S&W645]

Sorry. Late to the fray, here, but fun none the less.

Umm..... at the time the picture was taken, the figure is standing at the impact line and below the fire line. Like you said, A picture tells a thousand words. But you have to be able to see clearly to answer the correct question.

Even the intake to the firebox of a boiler is cool. Add to it that heat rises Walt and I'd think EE could understand that.

[CharlieK]

Even the intake to the firebox of a boiler is cool. Add to it that heat rises Walt and I'd think EE could understand that.

Not a chance, unless she can find it on some conspiracy website!!

[walt629]

Even the intake to the firebox of a boiler is cool. Add to it that heat rises Walt and I'd think EE could understand that.

Considering how much EE would like us to believe she knows about the sciences, believing the basics of thermal propagation are overlooked is hard to conceive.

[fstroupe]

OK I'm gonna get a little tinfoil here,

I won't say that I'm 100% positive that Flight 77 was shot down but I am 100% positive that the government would have shot it down if they had to.

Actually, Flight 77 is the bird that hit the Pentagon. The earliest information made me pretty certain that it was not an airliner that hit the Pentagon. When the various security camera photos were released, I was even less convinced of a bird, the photos just didn't look like an airliner.

It was some time later that anyone mentioned the light poles that were knocked over, which could not have been done by a cruise missile (some could, but not all). These poles are in random photos taken (of other stuff) on 9/11. The thing that finally took me from disbelieving to 90% sure it WAS an airliner was photos of debris that obviously came from an American Airlines bird, taken on 9/11, along with photos of engine parts etc at the base of the building, exactly where they should be. Why am I only 90% sure with this confirmation? I dunno....maybe a little tinfoil hat person exists in all of us. Probably more accurately, I am 98% sure rather than 90%.

I have my doubts that any airliner would have been shot down by US fighters before say, 1030am EDT. Afterwards.....maybe.

There were two F15s in the air just before 8am from Otis Air National Guard Base on Cape Cod, ordered by Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) because the Boston ATC had overheard cockpit transmissions from the hijackers on Flight 11. (a courtesy call had been made from the Boston ATC to Otis and the pilots were suited up and headed to the planes when the call came) (NEADS is the controlling authority for any fighters to be scrambled over Boston, NYC, and Washington DC...keep this fact in mind)

As the transponder had been turned off on Flight 11, they could not see the airliner. It wouldn't have mattered, 30 seconds later Flight 11 crashed into 1WTC. They headed to military airspace over Long Island, arrived at 909, and were in a holding pattern until 10 minutes after Flight 175 had hit 2WTC. They then head to Manhattan where they begin patrolling, about the same time that the FAA and NORAD finally established communications with each other. (NEADS receives information and orders via NORAD)

A minute or so later, the FAA bans all takeoffs, 10 minutes later Flight 77 hits the Pentagon (9:37:46) and not until 945 are any fighters scrambled to fly over Washington DC.

18 minutes later, (1003) Flight 93 crashes in PA.

Would any of the pilots have shot down Flight 93? At 1010, NEADS gave a NO SHOOT order to all pilots over Washington DC. About the same time VP Cheney gives authorization to shoot down Flight 93, not knowing that it had crashed. At 1014, a WH military liaison begins attempting to notify the National Military Command Center (NMCC) (under J-3 Joint Chiefs) that the VP had given authorization to shoot down Flight 93 and any other airliner that has been confirmed to be hijacked. At 1031, NEADS is finally informed officially that the VP had given the shootdown order.

The 9/11 commission determined that Flight 93 would have arrived in Washington DC sometime between 1013 and 1022. Flight 93 would not have been shot down.

I would not have wanted to have been in an aircraft after 1030 on 9/11 who had unfortunately lost its navigational and communications electronics and was flying blind and deaf towards Washington DC. Can you say SIDEWINDERS? I thought you could. LOL

[fstroupe]

Mom, you know that on most issues you and I are somewhat in step But on this cause I must disagree. Anyone that joined the forum in April 2012 and already has over 1300 posts is:
a. A kid sitting at home with nothing else to do.
b. Troll
c. An adult sitting at home with nothing else to do.
d. Troll
e. Someone with nothing but conspiracy theories to keep them warm on cold winter nights.

Of course this is just MHO.

I really don't consider eagleeyes a troll. She has found a new forum to play at (as I have) and is pretty excited about it (as I also am). She is firm in her beliefs and has no problem telling them again and again and again. She probably does have a lot of time on her hands. She is the kind of person (as I once was and occasionally still am) that can't take a hint. Since she is using her phone to post it is much easier not to use punctuation and capital letters. (I can't stand it either but after 16 or so years on the 'net frequenting bulletin boards, email groups, news groups, and forums, all full of people that can't type, I have finally learned to overlook it) She is probably a good person, and really doesn't quite understand what the big deal is. As the administration of this forum is fairly lax (as I like especially in the Politics section of a forum) she was allowed to go a little too far. She is blunt and doesn't have problems being a little rude, but many others on this forum, some of who I really like, are the same.

She has done a little trolling I feel (as you are now doing to her) but not an outright troll.

[PatAz]

She may not be a troll, but she certainly shows how a lttle knowledge can be dangerous. Or in this case pathetic

[Mark Chitty]

Glad to see the maturity level has increased since I last peeked in on this thread...

[B2Tall]

I can't speak to thermal dynamics, structural engineering or projectile physics. But I am educated in the field of human behavior, and this is what I refer to in regards to any conspiracy theory:

In order to have a conspiracy you must have conspirators. The bigger the conspiracy the larger the number of conspirators. The larger the number of people who know what really happened, the higher the probability that one of them will talk. That probability multiplies over time as some of those people's thoughts, feelings, and beliefs about the event will change as there perspective evolves with age. The only way to keep people from talking is to kill them or lock them away somewhere, which often involves adding people to a new conspiracy, but with a link to the old conspiracy that again increases the odds of the original conspiracy being exposed.

So with a little knowledge of human behavior and math you should be able to surmise that any conspiracy of this magnitude is most likely going to be exposed given enough time. And it's obvious that the chance of something of such magnitude not being exposed within a decade is minuscule, even if there are too many variables to calculate the exact odds.

If you really understand that and common sense does not prevail, then you may want to seek counselling because you are either paranoid or have an unhealthy fixation on what was understandably a traumatizing event.

I've been saying this for years. And it doesn't stop with the act itself........there would literally have to be generations of government people protecting these government conspiracies over the years. The Kennedy asassination?? By now it would have had to involve thousands of people including SC justices, congressmen, LE officials, and so on and so forth.....even Walter Cronkite! And yet nobody has ever spilled the beans........made a death-bed confession......had a change of heart......all these people and all these conspiracies and yet nobody has ever talked. Amazing. Let me guess......they're afraid to talk because the secret government hit squads will kill them and their families (and strangely enough these hit squads have no problem with outsiders "exposing" the conspiracies). Uh-oh....is that another conspiracy?? Hit squads protecting the other conspiracies?? And who keeps the hit squads in line in case one of them wants to talk?? Hit squad hit squads?? It just never ends, but don't tell the conspiracy theorists that (key word: Theory. Notice how they're not called "conspiracy factualists"). They'll claim that you're part of the conspiracy. And then the hit squads will be after you!!

[Rhino]

We must all read what eagleeyes has to say, folks....Do not irritate the knowledgeable one. She has graduated amongst the top with honors in structural engineering. She is also an avid firefighter and has an experience as long as my two arms and legs combined written down on her resume. She is also an expert in gun handling, and have since acquired a doctorate degree in political science. Know that she is just imparting her valuable knowledge to all of us, which, given all the useful information she voluntarily imparted to us would have cost us millions and millions of dollars to squeezed out from other folks who knows lesser and therefore really only gave us useless information. We must not undermine her knowledge. We should all be grateful she is amongst us here populating the forum with her expertise and knowledge.

[Rhino]

Even the intake to the firebox of a boiler is cool. Add to it that heat rises Walt and I'd think EE could understand that.

Wanna know something else funny? The web page where that picture is hosted at photobucket is blocked by Symantec because it contains malicious content.