Edited from original.

Quote Originally Posted by localgirl View Post
Actually, in my version--which may not be socialism--you get higher education based on merit and ability. If you do well and show aptitude, you get to go to college, no matter how much money your parents make.
No, that isn't socialism in itself, just the opposite. Socialism eliminates all differences, makes everyone "the same". No pass, no fail, no win, no lose, make everyone a mushy pliable robot who will do as they are told because they are dependent. In socialism there is no desire for excellence, which is ok because in a socialistic society you will never get excellence. No one tries to excel because not only are they not credited for it, they are discouraged from it.

Quote Originally Posted by localgirl View Post
As for elementary/secondary--either privatized or chartered. The public school system in one huge fail.
Pretty simple there....When the federal government began controlling what schools taught (and couldn't teach), the schools began to fail. Direct funding of public schools began in 1965. I never really wondered why until this very moment....they were preparing national implementation of the ruling in Brown v Board of Education. The schools were previously controlled by the states and the federal government only had control on one school from that ruling, Topeka (KS) Elementary School. Prior to the Election of 1964, when there was a huge influx of liberal Democrats replacing ousted conservative Democrats and "Dixiecrats", it was impossible to make that kind of sweeping change to the educational system.

The Department of Education was (re)created in 1979 by Jimmy Carter. All I can figure is that it was to give control of primary education to the NEA, there have been no markable benefits to the US educational system from it in the past 33 years. Most union hierarchy is socialist/Marxist, and the NEA may be the worst of all. These are the people in charge of educating American children. God help us. Oh....He can't, He has been ruled out of the schools by the Supreme Court.

Quote Originally Posted by localgirl View Post
But, in my version government funds, but doesn't control, healthcare and education (see France). That's a little expensive, so they have to bugger off when it comes to everything else.
That's where the big problem comes in. Funding equals control. When your ideology is based on a lie, you have to promulgate the lie somehow. You do that by attaching strings to government funding.

You don't have to believe me. I have been trying to tell people this stuff for 30 years, but usually I just get laughed at. People believe only what they want to believe, and won't believe what doesn't fit their narrow view of the way they think that things are.

In 1958, a former FBI agent/supervisor, Cleon Skousen, who had personally been hired by J. Edgar Hoover (who is now being claimed to have been homosexual) to infiltrate the American Communist Party, and the World Communist Party if possible, published a book, "The Naked Communist". In this book, Skousen lists the goals of the world communists directed towards the United States as they were in the mid-1950s. This list was read into the Congressional Record on January 10, 1963, the second week of the 88th Congress.

Skousen, a Morman, also taught at Brigham Young, was Chief of Police of Salt Lake City, and afterward became a conservative speaker and author. His record has been so distorted by his enemies that it is pretty impossible to find out his history, even in favorable writeups.

The first of these goals are specifically designed to give access to the former Soviet Union to the free world and give them advantages towards America. Make your own decision about the rest:

Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963
Current Communist Goals
EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Thursday, January 10, 1963

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.
At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:
[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]
CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.