Damn the paranoia (and other stuff) runs deep.
This is a discussion on Whom Does U.S. Government Intend to Shoot? within the Politics forums, part of the Main Category category; Funny thing, it is against the Geneva Convention for the military to use hollow point ammunition during a war. Why ...
Funny thing, it is against the Geneva Convention for the military to use hollow point ammunition during a war. Why then is it necessary for the Federal government to be buying such ammunition? I guess the government wants to insure the most damage to the civiliam populace.
Whom Does U.S. Government Intend To Shoot? By Major General Jerry Curry, USA (Ret.)
By Ruth King on August 20th, 2012
Whom Does U.S. Government Intend To Shoot? | Gerard Direct
WHY DOES THE SSA NEED ALL THE AMMO? THIS IS TERRIFYING….RSK
The Social Security Administration (SSA) confirms that it is purchasing 174 thousand rounds of hollow point bullets to be delivered to 41 locations in major cities across the U.S. No one has yet said what the purpose of these purchases is, though we are led to believe that they will be used only in an emergency to counteract and control civil unrest. Those against whom the hollow point bullets are to be used — those causing the civil unrest — must be American citizens; since the SSA has never been used overseas to help foreign countries maintain control of their citizens.
What would be the target of these 174, 000 rounds of hollow point bullets? It can’t simply be to control demonstrators or rioters. Hollow point bullets are so lethal that the Geneva Convention does not allow their use on the battle field in time of war. Hollow point bullets don’t just stop or hurt people, they penetrate the body, spread out, fragment and cause maximum damage to the body’s organs. Death often follows.
Potentially each hollow nose bullet represents a dead American. If so, why would the U.S. government want the SSA to kill 174,000 of our citizens, even during a time of civil unrest? Or is the purpose to kill 174,000 of the nation’s military and replace them with Department of Homeland Security (DHS) special security forces, forces loyal to the Administration, not to the Constitution?
All my life I’ve handled firearms. When a young boy growing up on my father’s farm in Pennsylvania Dad’s first rule of firearms training was, “Never point a gun at someone, in fun or otherwise, unless you intend to shoot them. If you shoot someone, shoot to kill.” I’ve never forgotten his admonition. It stayed with me through my Boy Scout training, when I enlisted in the army as a Private to fight in the Korean War, during my days as a Ranger and Paratrooper and throughout my thirty-four year military career.
If this were only a one time order of ammunition, it could easily be dismissed. But there is a pattern here. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has ordered 46,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition. Notice that all of these purchases are for the lethal hollow nose bullets. These bullets are not being purchased and stored for squirrel or coyote hunting. This is serious ammunition manufactured to be used for serious purposes.
In the war in Iraq, our military forces expended approximately 70 million rounds per year. In March DHS ordered 750 million rounds of hollow point ammunition. It then turned around and ordered an additional 750 million rounds of miscellaneous bullets including some that are capable of penetrating walls. This is enough ammunition to empty five rounds into the body of every living American citizen. Is this something we and the Congress should be concerned about? What’s the plan that requires so many dead Americans, even during times of civil unrest? Has Congress and the Administration vetted the plan in public.
I fear that Congress won’t take these ammunition purchases seriously until they are all led from Capitol Hill in handcuffs. Why buy all this ammunition unless you plan to use it. Unknown to Congress, Does DHS plan to declare war on some country? Shouldn’t Congress hold hearings on why the Administration is stockpiling this ammunition all across the nation? How will it be used; what are the Administration’s plans?
Obama is a deadly serious, persistent man. Once he focuses on an object, he pursues it to the end. What is his focus here? All of these rounds of ammunition can only be used to kill American citizens, though there is enough ammunition being ordered to kill, in addition to every American citizen, also every Iranian, Syrian or Mexican. There is simply too much of it. And this much ammunition can’t be just for training, there aren’t that many weapons and “shooters” in the U.S. to fire it. Perhaps it is to be used to arm illegal immigrants?
We have enough military forces to maintain law and order in the U.S. even during times of civil unrest.
We have local police, backed up by each state’s National Guard, backed up by the Department of Defense. So in addition to all these forces why does DHS need its own private army? Why do the SSA, NOAA and other government agencies need to create their own civilian security forces armed with hollow nose bullets?
Were I the JCS, and if I wasn’t already fully briefed on this matter, I’d stop the purchase of hollow point bullets, ask the secretary of Defense why all this ammunition is being purchased and spread around the country? If I got answers like the ones Congress got during the investigation of Operation Fast and Furious – I’d start tracking all ammunition deliveries nationwide to find out what organizations and units are using them, for what purpose and, if it is not constitutional, prepare to counteract whatever it is that they are doing.
This is a deadly serious business. I hope I’m wrong, but something smells rotten. And If the Congress isn’t going to do its duty and investigate this matter fully, the military will have to protect the Constitution, the nation, and our citizens.
Jerry Curry is a decorated combat veteran, Army Aviator, Paratrooper, and Ranger, who for nearly forty years has served his country both in the military and as a Presidential political appointee.
Damn the paranoia (and other stuff) runs deep.
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."Bertrand Russell
NRAs reply to it. Lot of branches in those departments that are police and arrest people. I do agree that it's weird they are buying hollow points versus fmj
Maybe it is just their way of causing supply and demand to create a shortage and drive prices up. I think the growing public interest in gun ownership scares them. Maybe we can pick it up at auction when the government goes broke.
First problem is with the math of the second order by DHS. Add up the first year and the max is 10,354,000 rounds. Each year after that follows the same pattern. So drop the ammo max order by a factor of 10. Second read the paperwork. It only guarantees an order of 1000 rounds of each type listed per year. 5000 rounds of each type per the contract term. That comes out to a guaranteed 31 thousand rounds of all types the first year up to the 10,354,000 max if they take it all. Second year is another 31,000 rounds min to a max of 11,434,000 rounds. Third year 31,000 to 12,528,000. Fourth year is 31,000 min to 13,780,000 max. Fifth year is another 31,000 min to a max of 15,158,000. Sure isn't 750 million rounds. Min is 155,000 rounds to a max of 63,254,000 over the 5 years of the contract. The contract is done on an option basis so it could be even less than the 155,000 rounds if they didn't take all the option years up.
NRA Life Member.
Normal is an illusion. What is normal to the spider is chaos to the fly.
Oldgrunt, have you looked at the NRA take on these purchases? If so, do you find problems with it? If not, why not?
The reason a large part of these orders are for hollow-point ammo is that it is destined for law enforcement agencies, not military personnel. I don't believe the Geneva Conventions puts restrictions on either US federal or state/local law enforcement use of JHP ammo. If they do, we're in much bigger trouble than I thought.
The NRA response to the concerns about the purchases has been out for three days now, and it's been linked to in each of the several threads around here on the subject. If it's errant, I'd like to know why/how. If it's valid analysis though, why are retired Generals and The Daily Caller et al still going on about it, and trying to couch it as military rather than the truth that it is civil law enforcement receiving the orders? And I like The Daily Caller generally-speaking. I just question why anyone, them included, is keeping this story going when it's been pretty well debunked as anything other than SOP for end-of-fiscal-year purchases by government agencies?
Again I say: I am not concerned with what pistol cartridges LEOs, SSA or NOAA security personnel, or even the military for that matter, are carrying. Their JHP ammo against mine, if it ever came to that, and their training and tactics against mine, seems more of a fair fight than could ever be imagined in any real-world scenario. I'm a helluva lot more concerned with their full-auto, real assault weapons, their fully-militarized armored personnel carriers, their nearly unlimited entry authority into our homes in platoon-sized, even company-sized in special cases, assault teams, and on and on and on. Their pistol ammo is really meaningless to the threat a run amok LE community poses. I just don't get the woo-woo about it.
Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to Police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.
I don't like conspiracy theories. They usually make legitimate conservative concerns look foolish. However, with the Obama regime it is more difficult to discredit ideas that in more sane times would not even be worthy of consideration. Before the 2008 election Obama said that he wanted to build a civilian army that was equal to the military. I think that it is possible that they do not trust the military to support them and their progressive move toward a totalitarian government. Many of the American people will not quietly watch the destruction of the constitution and our republic. The military might not go along with the slaughter of thousands of Americans; and government bureaucrats probably would. They already are willing to destroy lives in order to increase their own power. Total government control would simply guarantee more bureaucrats.
I apoligize for adding to conspiracy theories. These, however, are not normal times. I don't think that our republic has ever faced greater dangers.