VFW no guns concealed or otherwise

[FreedomsAdvocate]

I got confused early on..... there's a Louisville convention center downtown near the river, and the KY exposition center south of town near the airport. I was under the impression that McCain spoke downtown. Hey, I've slept since then, and I'm old.......

I have it on good authority that one is not old--officially--until one can no longer laugh at a dirty joke

[Big Gay Al]

I got confused early on..... there's a Louisville convention center downtown near the river, and the KY exposition center south of town near the airport. I was under the impression that McCain spoke downtown. Hey, I've slept since then, and I'm old.......

Believe me, I know where you're coming from. I'm 52, but there are days I feel more like 72, or is it 82? In any event. These days, it seems like it's my memory that works better than most of the rest of me. Damn it. :)

[Jay]

Back on topic.......

It was a lightly attended meeting and when the vote was taken a quorum of 5 or 6 made the decision

We had a similar situation here. Local range meetings were being attended by only the elected officers. So, we voted and passed a rule allowing a majority present to conduct business. We passed a one-time $20 "access fee" for all range use effective 60 days later. That allowed for another meeting to be held before the "access fee"...... we had 150+ members at the next meeting, and the access fee proposal was voted down. You want a voice, show up and make yourself heard.

Just my two cents.....

[gdcleanfun]

Hope said LEO never needs the help of some highly trained in the use of many firearms for decades VFW types to back-up his sorry retarded ass if a gang of Hells Angles or escaped cons rolls thru town shooting the place up. Solution solved, bury one dead LEO and elect another who does think his armed citizen/Vets are a great back-up idea.
Suggest send all your VFW cards back to VFW head office in protest:
Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW)
with standard formatted & signed letter of complaint stating State law that should over-ride city or county ones and see what they say, can't lose much but cheap booze/snacks and old/newer war story chit-chat, U can find that in any place(s) where Vets meet.
Good luck out-foxing some ass-wipe who prolly was always in the LEO trade, but never in BDU's, OD-Greens or even knows how to pull immediate action on an M16/M14/M-1/M-2/M60/SAW/M1911/M9, etc!
Print-up some T-shirts and wear them with pride letting him know he only speaks English because you served! Not a crime of the 1st Amnd I would guess!

Canis-Lupus

For the most part I agree that LEO's are happy to have the backup. However, do you remember this early morning melee in a Colorado River casino back in 2002? I don't think I would have been in a position to back up anyone. I would have dove for cover; how small a whole can you squeeze into when there is a bombardment going off all around you after midnight and between 2 rival biker gangs and their handguns, knives, bar stools, et al? I was just there the weekend before at a bowling tourney. Not at Harrah's hotel or casino, but it's a small town and the hotels are pretty much centrally located along the river. That was close to home! One can go oggle the term "casino shooting" and find incidences in Nevada and around the world. People can be just so stOOpid everywhere!

Biker Gangs shoot up Casino

[Ah ha, I finally got it to copy the story.]

In the middle of the night, rivals square off in Nevada's deadliest casino shooting. Three are killed.

Compiled from Times wires
© St. Petersburg Times
published April 28, 2002

LAUGHLIN, Nev. -- Denise Massey was gambling with her fiance on the first floor of Harrah's casino Saturday when she noticed 20 to 30 bikers suddenly converge.

"Next thing you know you just hear "bam, bam, bam,' " she said. "All of a sudden they're running and just shooting at each other."

In the worst shooting inside a Nevada casino, rival motorcycle gangs armed with guns and knives clashed, leaving three dead and at least 12 wounded as terrified gamblers ducked for cover.

The brawl, involving 60 to 70 people, broke out between the Hells Angels and the Mongols during an annual bikers event that draws tens of thousands of roaring Harleys and Hondas to this riverside gambling town 80 miles southeast of Las Vegas.

"We do have a number of suspects in custody, including at least one shooter, who was arrested with his weapon," said Lt. Vincent Cannito of the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, which patrols Laughlin. More than 200 people were being interviewed, and multiple arrests are expected.

The killings took place during the 20th annual River Ride, which brings as many as 100,000 riders and spectators to this desert outpost of about 8,000 residents along the Colorado River in a corner of the Nevada badlands. The resort town has nine casinos and attracts about 5-million visitors a year.

Police said that multiple shots were fired and that some of the gang members went after each other with knives, bar stools and fists. The melee, which began at 2:15 a.m., was captured by the casino's video cameras.

Two police officers discharged their weapons, one accidentally during an arrest, and one during a gunfight with the brawlers. Authorities said the accidental shot is not believed to have hit anyone. They would not discuss the outcome of the other shot.

Tirso Dominguez of the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department said two men died inside the casino and one died outside. Their names have not been released.

A fourth victim was found dead along Interstate 40 early this morning near San Bernardino, Calif., and police suspect the killing is related because the man, a motorcycle gang member, had been shot.

Scores of officers from Nevada and Arizona had been deployed to Laughlin this weekend to provide security for the gathering. Several hundred more poured into the area after the fight, and police closed highways and the bridge that connects Laughlin to Bullhead City, Ariz. The routes were reopened later in the morning.

Harrah's was in lockdown, with guests escorted from the casino and the hotel, as police continued to search from room to room for other possible victims or suspects.

Chris Welton, 42, of Carson City was playing poker when the shooting began.

"Shots just started going off," he said. "There were dead bodies. Pretty nasty. There was a guy about 10 feet from me. He was dead. His buddy was trying to revive him."

John Davidson, 39, ducked beneath a blackjack table.

"There were shell casings landing right by us," he said. "I had to pull the dealer down. She was screaming."

Cannito described the bikers involved as "the notorious one-percenters," meaning the one-in-a-hundred motorcycle enthusiasts who claim membership in so-called outlaw gangs.

"We're not mincing words," Cannito said. "These are the bad guys. It doesn't matter how many toy runs they do, these are still outlaw and often criminal gangs."

Cannito was referring to the motorcycle club practice of collecting toys for children before Christmas, riding around with teddy bears and wrapped packages to deliver them to hospitals or children's homes.

Saturday's violence mars a culture that draws an overwhelming number of law-abiding, peaceful "weekend warriors" who enjoy riding their gleaming chrome machines.

Most of the riders in town for the event appeared to be middle-aged, male and sporting a paunch.

"These are club riders. These aren't bad boys and gangbangers," said Jeffrey Schwartzman, an insurance agent from Phoenix, who was attending with his wife. Schwartzman explained that, for all the leather chaps and dangling chains, "most riders live normal, boring lives, going to work and taking the kids to soccer practice."

During the River Ride, most of the bikers drive their motorcycles up and down Casino Drive or park and visit the tents and booths selling cold beer and merchandise.

Authorities warned of the danger for further violence.

"The rumors of retaliation have already hit the street," said Larry Tunforss, spokesman for the Fire Department in Bullhead City, Ariz., which is across the river from Laughlin. "Our police department is beefing up intensely. There's a definite concern of further incidents."

-- Information from the Associated Press and the Washington Post was used in this report.

[toreskha]

I would have dove for cover; how small a whole can you squeeze into when there is a bombardment going off all around you after midnight and between 2 rival biker gangs and their handguns, knives, bar stools, et al? I was just there the weekend before at a bowling tourney. Not at Harrah's hotel or casino, but it's a small town and the hotels are pretty much centrally located along the river. That was close to home!

The brawl, involving 60 to 70 people, broke out between the Hells Angels and the Mongols during an annual bikers event that draws tens of thousands of roaring Harleys and Hondas to this riverside gambling town 80 miles southeast of Las Vegas.

I wouldn't say to be paranoid or anything, but if you know there's going to be a huge event in a particular city, and that event may draw people who are going to cause trouble, then don't be there to begin with. The other random tourists who were there couldn't possibly have missed the fact that there were thousands of bikers in town at that time. Didn't it cross anyone's mind that they might want to spend the weekend elsewhere?

Most motorcycle people are good, but whenever there's an event like Bike Week in Daytona (very close to here) or Biketoberfest, there's a very good chance of it drawing a large number of troublemakers, who will dramatically raise the risk of violence breaking out.

Liquor stores and clubs are in sort of the same category as big, drunken events. It's like watching a TV show where you know what's going to happen, even though the people in the show are apparently oblivious. The unlucky ensign always dies in Star Trek; Mulder was always right in every episode of The X-Files. Liquor stores are almost inevitably going to get robbed. Someone is going to get into a fight and get shot outside of a club at least once a week in every major city.

[gdcleanfun]

I wouldn't say to be paranoid or anything, but if you know there's going to be a huge event in a particular city, and that event may draw people who are going to cause trouble, then don't be there to begin with. The other random tourists who were there couldn't possibly have missed the fact that there were thousands of bikers in town at that time. Didn't it cross anyone's mind that they might want to spend the weekend elsewhere?

Good point, Toreskha. Yet, there's another side to that coin: why should I or anyone else not go somewhere where we are legally allowed to go? Why do we have to be the ones to find somewhere else to go? Why don't the troublemakers go somewhere else? I'm just sayin' if I was to limit the places we could go just because there might be trouble then we'd have to be hermits. That is LEO's job to track where the troublemakers go, not ours. Our job is to enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

[wuzfuz]

The idiot sheriff who informed every business in town about their right to put up those odious stickers. Each and every person who has a license needs to write a letter to any business that posts that sign that you have the right not to spend your money in a place that is that anti-constitution. Hit them in the wallet and see how fast they change. In addition, send a letter to the sheriff that you have the absolute right to vote his stupid a$$ out of office in the next election. Let him find out how many voters carry.

[toreskha]

Good point, Toreskha. Yet, there's another side to that coin: why should I or anyone else not go somewhere where we are legally allowed to go? Why do we have to be the ones to find somewhere else to go? Why don't the troublemakers go somewhere else? I'm just sayin' if I was to limit the places we could go just because there might be trouble then we'd have to be hermits. That is LEO's job to track where the troublemakers go, not ours. Our job is to enjoy life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

True, and that falls in with the fact that the law is supposed to assume that people are innocent until proven guilty. A neighborhood, business or event that holds itself out as functioning for legal purposes is essentially given the benefit of the doubt, until something happens. Your local LE agency probably won't publicly denounce liquor stores and clubs as potentially dangerous places, although they may give you dry statistical numbers on them.

However, private citizens are free in thought and speech; I can openly and justifiably say, "Going to a bar is a great way to get your skull fractured." As individuals, we are capable of allowing our prejudices about certain types of situations or places to influence our behavior. This can be quite helpful in allowing us to gauge the level of risk we're willing to take on when going into a situation.

Although I should be able to go to certain businesses in Jacksonville without feeling like I'm going to get killed, I know that they inevitably attract a large number of people who are intent on starting trouble. The same is true for certain neighborhoods and events. It's not worth it for me to endanger myself to prove a point.

[gdcleanfun]

However, private citizens are free in thought and speech; I can openly and justifiably say, "Going to a bar is a great way to get your skull fractured." As individuals, we are capable of allowing our prejudices about certain types of situations or places to influence our behavior. This can be quite helpful in allowing us to gauge the level of risk we're willing to take on when going into a situation.

Although I should be able to go to certain businesses in Jacksonville without feeling like I'm going to get killed, I know that they inevitably attract a large number of people who are intent on starting trouble. The same is true for certain neighborhoods and events. It's not worth it for me to endanger myself to prove a point.

I agree with your last 2 paragraphs, to a point. However, the scenario in discussion occurred in a casino, a place that is in the business of catering to lots of people. I'm agree that we should be careful where we tred, lest we incur the wrath of those with whom we would rather not associate. Should we be careful not to go to casinos? No. I think that's pushing the point. I won't avoid a casino just because there is a crowd there. I would avoid the casino if I knew there would be biker gangs there. I've had my share of bikers. Sorry, no offense. Just my personal opinion. I ride my bike alone.

[gun runner]

In my Vet group just about evry one carrys. I have been selling firearms to my club members until Jan 20 at my cost. I am even setting up a Utah CHL class for those vets that don't have it in my club. It is great that most vets are pro gun.