Concealed Carry Reciprocity is CURRENTLY banned under Federal Law. (Important)
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Concealed Carry Reciprocity is CURRENTLY banned under Federal Law. (Important)

This is a discussion on Concealed Carry Reciprocity is CURRENTLY banned under Federal Law. (Important) within the Politics forums, part of the Main Category category; Concealed Carry Reciprocity, and all unlicensed carry of any kind is effectively banned under current federal law. I am not ...

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    Exclamation Concealed Carry Reciprocity is CURRENTLY banned under Federal Law. (Important)

    Concealed Carry Reciprocity, and all unlicensed carry of any kind is effectively banned under current federal law. I am not joking, nor am I mistaken, so please take the time to read my post, and please E-mail your Congressional representatives with the letter I have prepared for your convenience, and included at the very bottom of this post. This will only take a few minutes of your time.


    The federal law I am referring to, is Title 18 U.S.C Part 1 Chapter 44 Section 922(q) known as the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995. This federal law, which is currently on the books, effectively bans all concealed carry reciprocity agreements between States, by making it illegal for any person to have a functional firearm within 1000 Feet of the property line of any Elementary or High School in our country, with very few exceptions.

    The original version of this law, passed in 1990, was struck down by the US Supreme Court in "United States v Lopez (1995)," because Congress had not claimed a connection to "interstate commerce," however the second version, the one which is currently on the books, was upheld as recently as 2005 by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in the case United States v Dorsey




    One exception to this law, is if the firearm is unloaded and in a locked container.

    A second exception is having the firearm "on private property not part of school grounds." Remember, the roads/highways/sidewalks are not private property, so this exception does not apply while driving on public streets.

    A third exception, is if the person possessing the firearm has a concealed carry permit issued by the State in which the school zone is located. This means that as the law is written, and as it has been interpreted by BATFE, if a person with a concealed carry permit is in any State other than the State that physically issued their permit, and they drive within 1000 feet of any K-12 school (which is impossible to avoid) with an unlocked gun, they are committing a federal crime. Violation of this law is punishable by up to five (5) years in federal prison and a conviction will bar a person from owning firearms for life


    There was even a case in 2000 (United States v Tait) where an Alabama concealed carry permit holder was prosecuted under this federal law, for carrying a firearm in Alabama. The prosecution claimed that Mr. Tait's Alabama permit did not exempt him from the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act, even in Alabama.

    In another case, United States v Nieves-Castaño, a woman was actually convicted under the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act for having a firearm in her home! Her home (a third floor apartment) just happened to be within 1000 feet of a school and it happened to be public property (a housing project). She was not a student, and her conduct had absolutely nothing to do with the school. This conviction was upheld by the Federal Appeals Court for the First Circuit in 2007.


    Ironically, law enforcement officers carrying a handgun under LEOSA are not exempt from the GFSZA, unless they are acting in their official capacity. This means that a law enforcement officer, carrying under LEOSA while on vacation with their family, can not drive within 1000 feet of a school without risking five years in federal prison.



    Also note, there is no exception in the law for the discharge of a firearm by anyone other than a law enforcement officer acting in their official capacity on public property while in a school zone (within 1000 feet of the property line of any K-12 school), under any circumstance. This could conceivably be an issue if you're the victim of a violent crime while on public property such as roads, sidewalks, fair grounds, city parks, etc.





    Many people think this law has never been enforced. Unfortunately this is not the case. This revised law has indeed been enforced, below you will find several court cases that you can read.


    Update: Here is a February 2012 letter from US Senator Tom Coburn in which he states, "(GFSZA) does result in otherwise law-abiding citizens being arrested when they did not know they were breaking the law."


    There you go, straight from a US Senator's mouth.


    US Senator Coburn's February 2012 Letter












    ---------------------CASES--------------------------------------------


    United States v Danks (1999) USA v. Jordan Danks

    United States v Tait (2000) (Attempted prosecution of an Alabama permit holder) 202 F3d 1320 United States v. Tait | OpenJurist

    United States v Haywood (2003) UNITED STATES of America v. Ira HAYWOOD, Appellant.

    United States v Dorsey (2005) (Upheld the revised law as constitutional) UNITED STATES of America, Plaintiff-Appellee, v. Nikos Delano DORSEY, Defendant-Appellant.

    United States v Smith (2005) USA v. Smith This case says that the mere movement of the gun's component parts in Interstate Commerce is enough to satisfy the jurisdictional element needed for conviction.

    United States v Nieves-Castaño (2007) UNITED STATES of America, Appellee, v. Belen NIEVES-CASTAÑO, Defendant, Appellant. A woman was convicted for having a gun in her home; which happened to be within 1000ft of a school.

    United States v Weekes (2007) [UNITED]UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. PHINEHAS WEEKES, Appellant STATES OF AMERICA v. PHINEHAS WEEKES[/url]

    United States v Benally (2007) United States vs. Benally

    United States v Cruz-Rodriguez (2008) Untitled #1668141


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    Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 44 Section 922 (unlawful acts)
    United States Code - TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE - PART I - CRIMES - CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS - section 922

    Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 44 section 921 (Definitions)
    United States Code - TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE - PART I - CRIMES - CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS - section 921


    BATFE Opinion (2002) on Reciprocity: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf



    Homeschoolers Attempt to File Suit: HSLDA & the Gun Free School Zones Act - A to Z Home's Cool Homeschooling

    Gun Free Zones Plotted on City Maps: Gun Free School Zones Directory
































    Title 18 U.S.C. §922(q)
    (1) The Congress finds and declares that—
    (A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;
    (B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
    (C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary [3] the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;
    (D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
    (E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;
    (F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;
    (G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;
    (H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves—even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and
    (I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation’s schools by enactment of this subsection.
    (2)
    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    (iii) that is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
    (3)
    (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for any person, knowingly or with reckless disregard for the safety of another, to discharge or attempt to discharge a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the person knows is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the discharge of a firearm—
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) as part of a program approved by a school in the school zone, by an individual who is participating in the program;
    (iii) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in a school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual; or
    (iv) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity.
    (4) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed as preempting or preventing a State or local government from enacting a statute establishing gun free school zones as provided in this subsection.


    Title 18 U.S.C. §921(25) The term “school zone” means—
    (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
    (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
    (26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.





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    Eagle2009's Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. I have never represented myself as such. Please do not even consider taking my comments or interpretations of the law as fact or legal advice. The law is a very serious matter.
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    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sample Letter: Write your Congressional Representatives
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Federal Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995; How It Conflicts with the Laws of Forty-Eight States and Turns Millions of American Gun Owners Into Everyday Federal Criminals

    I wish to express my concerns about Title 18 U.S.C §922(q) known as "The Federal Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995." This federal law makes it generally unlawful for any person to knowingly possess a functional firearm, within one thousand(1000)feet of the property line of any public or private elementary, middle, or high school in our nation. As the law is currently enacted, it effectively voids, in developed areas, the concealed carry reciprocity agreements which have been entered into by most of the forty-eight(48) states that issue permits. The law also fails to recognize unlicensed carry in the states that allow this practice. Although The Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995 contains two exceptions which are applicable to armed citizens, they do not adequately protect these individuals while exercising their Second Amendment rights. The original 1990 version of this law was ruled unconstitutional by the United States Supreme Court, and was reenacted in 1995 with the very minor changes necessary to comply with the Supreme Court's ruling.

    The first exception in the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995 is that it does not apply to private property. Although this exception protects gun owners living within 1000 feet of a school, it does not provide armed citizens any protection while they are traveling on public property, such as sidewalks, roads, and highways. The attached maps illustrate how the large number of schools in developed areas make it nearly impossible for someone to travel armed without being in violation.

    The second exception is if a person has a concealed carry permit physically issued by the state in which the school is located. Although this exception allows permit holders to legally travel armed in their home State, it does not protect them if they wish to visit other states which recognize their permit through reciprocity agreements. This is further explained by the attached letter from the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. For obvious reasons, our laws do not require an automobile driver to get a separate driver's license from every state they wish to drive in. Accordingly, the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995 should not require a permit holder to obtain separate state permits to qualify for the federal exemption. In addition, most states allow for some form of legal, but unlicensed carry. This may be open carry, automobile carry, or concealed carry without requiring a permit. These activities are highly regulated in the states which allow them, but they are not recognized by The Federal Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995.

    Importantly, the current law is different than the original version which was passed in 1990, and struck down by the United States Supreme Court in the 1995 case of United States v Lopez. The US Supreme Court ruled the original law was invalid because Congress had not included the required jurisdictional element which is used in other federal laws. Following the Lopez ruling, Congress reenacted the law, with the necessary jurisdictional element, requiring that the prosecuting attorney prove that a firearm or its part have at some point in time, moved in or otherwise effected interstate commerce. Although the current law has not been reviewed by the US Supreme Court, it has been reviewed and upheld by several Federal Appellate Courts including the First, Third, Sixth, Ninth, and Tenth Circuits. All of these circuits have ruled that the presence of a jurisdictional element in the current law, corrects the issue that caused the original 1990 law to be struck down in United States v Lopez.

    In conclusion, by making it generally unlawful for an individual to travel armed on public sidewalks, roads, and highways that pass within one thousand feet of a school, Title 18 U.S.C. §922(q) criminalizes activity which is legal and highly regulated under state law. It is important that The Federal Gun Free School Zones Act of 1995 be amended to recognize the laws of the forty-eight States which allow citizens without criminal convictions to legally carry a firearm.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Here is a link to an official letter from BATF stating that the current law does not allow for concealed carry reciprocity agreements between States.

    www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf



    This law is very easy to fix. By far, the best solution is to add an exception for "any firearm lawfully possessed, carried, or transported under State law."

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    Sorry but that law is rendered invalid by the 10th....
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
    "Don't be so open minded that your brains fall out!" Father John Corapi.

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    It should be, but so should many other federal laws. Read the United States v Dorsey case. The federal appeals court upheld the conviction against constitutional challenges. People are getting convicted of this.

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    That's a heck of a first post and you may wish to study it a little closer. The ban deals primarily with students carrying weapons and not persons who are not students passing through the zone. Here's some reading on it:

    About the Gun-Free Schools Act of 1994

    NRA-ILA :: School Safety

    http://www.dpi.state.nd.us/speced/guide/policy/guns.pdf

    While there is an attempt to include all persons in the act, it should be noted that most states already ban students from carrying weapons to school. Some University's and Colleges are slowly changing that law though.

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    Ronwill, the statute does not mention "students" anywhere in it. In the United States v Nieves-Castaño case, a woman was actually convicted under the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act for having a firearm in her home! Her home (a third floor apartment) just happened to be within 1000 feet of a school, and it just happened to be public property (a housing project). She was not a student, and her conduct had absolutely nothing to do with the school. This conviction was upheld by the Federal Appeals Court for the First Circuit in 2007.


    Here are two quotes from the appeals court decision:

    Quote Originally Posted by United States v Nieves-Castaño Appeals Court
    Nieves-Castaño lived in a third-floor apartment in Building 9 of the Nemesio R. Canales Housing Project in Puerto Rico. She shared the apartment with her mother, her mother's school-age child, and her own two minor sons.

    Quote Originally Posted by United States v Nieves-Castaño Appeals Court
    In the end, the defendant's argument devolves into a claim that the government's evidence was insufficient to show that the defendant possessed a firearm within 1000 feet of a school's grounds. That claim fails. As Soler held, "[p]recise measurements may be unnecessary in some cases where the spatial leeway is relatively great and the gap in the claim of proof is relatively small." 275 F.3d at 154. Here, three minor children lived with the defendant, and it would be easy for a jury to conclude that she knew there were two schools nearby, within or just outside her housing project and less than 1000 feet away, and that she regularly passed by those schools. One school was, in fact, located next to the south entrance of the housing project. The prosecution's evidence was that the distance from the main fence of that school to the corner of Building 9 was 636 feet, and that the distance from the entrance of the school to that same corner was 670 feet. The record shows that the other school was even closer. The distance from the corner of Building 9 to that school's fence was 473 feet, and the distance to its entrance was 550 feet. The measurements were made using a small wheel-like device commonly used to measure forensic crime scenes.4 The government also introduced an aerial photograph showing the location of the schools and the defendant's apartment, which was entirely consistent with the measurements.
    37

    Whatever the fine points about measurement, there was leeway — before reaching the 1000 foot mark — of at least 330 feet between one of the schools and Building 9. This was more than sufficient to cover any refinements in the horizontal and vertical measurement needed to account for the distance between the corner of Building 9 and Nieves-Castaño's apartment. The conviction on Count Two is affirmed.
    And yes, for anyone wondering, Puerto Rico falls under the same Federal Law that we do in the mainland... so don't be fooled into thinking this case is somehow "different" or "special" because of where it occurred.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle2009 View Post
    Ronwill, the statute does not mention "students" anywhere in it. In the United States v Nieves-Castaño case, a woman was actually convicted under the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act for having a firearm in her home! Her home (a third floor apartment) just happened to be within 1000 feet of a school, and it just happened to be public property (a housing project).
    The difference here is "public housing" ran for or by the government. Similar things happened in California and were overturned because of the SCOTUS decision. You will find that no one has been prosecuted for transporting weapons through a school zone unless they were students. Does this mean the current administration won't try to abuse this law? They will in fact use every opportunity to advance their agenda of gun bans. This law will be extremely difficult to use for those purposes though. Here's some reading on more current public housing decisions:

    NRA-ILA :: California: NRA Victory in San Francisco Lawsuit!

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    In United States v Danks (1999) and United States v Smith (2005) both individuals were convicted under the 1000 foot rule. Smith was in his personal vehicle, on a public street (within 1000 feet of a school), when he committed the violation he was convicted of. The United States v Smith case is undeniable proof of an individual being convicted of this while in a personal vehicle on a public street.

    Also, the case of San Francisco trying to ban guns in public housing projects has no relation to this law. The thing in San Francisco was dealing with California State law. This is a Federal Law. People arrested under this law are brought into Federal Court. In the case you cited, San Fransisco voluntarily agreed to drop the ban. The California court did not order them to... in fact they never made a ruling either way. Even if the California court had made a ruling, it wouldn't matter... because this is a federal law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle2009 View Post
    In United States v Danks and United States v Smith both individuals were convicted under the 1000 foot rule. Smith was in his personal car, on a public street (within 1000 feet of a school), when he committed the violation he was convicted of. The appeals court upheld it.
    Once again this was long before the SCOTUS decision and, in Danks case, he fired the gun for a reason not explained in the reading. There has been much talk of the "Interstate Commerce" provision and I would like to see some very recent cases where arrests were made simply for having a firearm within 1000 feet of a school. Most states have amended their laws, including here in Georgia, to allow carry of a firearm by those with a permit while dropping off or picking up a student but not within school buildings. I guess we'll just have to see what happens.

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    The United States v Smith case was in 2005. It doesn't matter what Georgia law says, or the law of any other State. Federal Law trumps State law under the supremacy clause every time. The United States v Cruz Rodrguez appellate case upheld a GFSZA conviction under the 1000 foot rule on September 8, 2008. That was seven months ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle2009 View Post
    The United States v Smith case was in 2005. It doesn't matter what Georgia law says, or the law of any other State. Federal Law trumps State law under the supremacy clause every time. The United States v Cruz Rodrguez appellate case upheld a GFSZA conviction under the 1000 foot rule on September 8, 2008. That was seven months ago.


    Also, the case of San Francisco trying to ban guns in public housing projects has no relation to this law. This is a Federal Law.
    I can see this discussion will end in a stand off but consider the following excerpt:

    " The "gun free zones" law exempts CCW (Carry Concealed Weapon) holders who live in a state that requires a background check before the issuing of a permit. (This means that CCW holders that live in states like Alabama are not exempted under this provision because background checks are not mandated by state law.)

    And the site:

    GUN-FREE ZONES ACT: MYTH VS. REALITY

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