Open carry in sc

[GOV5]

I was told in CWP class by the instructor that not only do we have the right to intervene in a crime that is happening, or about to happen, but we have the DUTY to do it! He said it was part of our responsibility as CWP holders.It is helping out others when they need it.

Now I will admit that in the WalMart case, nobody is being attacked yet, but we know it's against the law to Open Carry. And yes, I DO have the right to do something about it...and so do you! And you should! IF, you care about our rights.

Look guys, do you want to stand by and see some dumb-ass redneck ruin what all of the Grassroots people, and gun owners, have worked so hard to get so far? Just let some ignorant, not "thinking about anybody else bozo" bring all that negative attention to us? Hell, I don't!!

[blume357@]

but seeing someone open carrying in Wallmart is not about that.... it's about trying to be a cop... if you see something questionable then call the law... I would not call the law because I see someone open carrying... I really don't know if that is illegal in that particular situation or not... on top of that, I don't think it should be...

there is a big difference between seeing some little old lady being mugged in the parking lot and seeing her jay walking..... Reminds me of Barney and Gomer and the scene about 'Citizen's Arrest, Citizen's Arrest!'

keep in mind that when you are intervening in any event you then become potentially liable for anything that happens afterwards....

[melloyello]

I was told in CWP class by the instructor that not only do we have the right to intervene in a crime that is happening, or about to happen, but we have the DUTY to do it! He said it was part of our responsibility as CWP holders.It is helping out others when they need it.

I don't know where you got your training or who was your instructor but there is a Duty to Retreat in the public domains for South Carolina.

I've never heard or read anywhere where you have any "right" to intervene in a commission of a crime in which you or another is not or no longer in imminent danger. By intervening you lose your right of self defense and open up a whole new arena of liability. Now in the defense of others who are in imminent danger you do have the right to defend them from the BG. A CWP holder cannot use deadly force in public area without exercising duty to retreat as the first avenue, not that I agree with it but think about Jason Dickey's case.

As to a red neck or anyone else for that matter, the law should reflect our rights and above anyone's lack of judgment or education. Our rights to keep and bear arms is guaranteed in the US Constitution and we need to have the right people in our state legislature to take our rights back.

[FN1910]

There is no duty to retreat in SC any more even in public places. The change in the law came about around 5-6 years ago along with the castle doctrine bill and is commonly referred to as "Stand Your Ground". I basically is the same as Castle Doctrine but in public. You must be in a place you have a right to be, you must not be breaking any laws an you must not be a fault for bring the action. If you meet those three requirements then you do not have to retreat even in public.

When I took the CWP class the second time it was a shock for me to learn about that as before I had been taught the Duty to Retreat principle the first time.

[GOV5]

Maybe I misunderstood the Instructor then. THX for clearing that up for me. I better re-think this carrying thing if I can't control myself. I would call the law, I was just saying that I would give them a little "advance" help until they arrived. LOL!

BTW, most cops, maybe not all, but most, carry concealed when off duty. Some depts even REQUIRE it.

The Jason case, there is a LOT more to that than was posted on the SC Grassroots site.

Where did you get that idea about Duty to Retreat in public? S.C. has no law like that. We are a Stand your ground State, as far as I know, which obviously is under question right now.

[blume357@]

The stand your ground is for when you are threatened with death or great bodily harm.. and that can be transfered to another person... it is not to stand your ground when you see some red neck in wallmart open carrying and you decide to detain them until the proper authorities arrive....

I'll point it out again... Barney and Gomer and 'citizen's arrest'!

Of course one has the moral obligation to intervene if they see a crime being committed especially if others are in danger of any kind, great or small... but keep in mind... 99% of the time this can and should be done with out any hint that you have a gun or the ability to use deadly force.

[melloyello]

The Jason case, there is a LOT more to that than was posted on the SC Grassroots site.

Where did you get that idea about Duty to Retreat in public? S.C. has no law like that. We are a Stand your ground State, as far as I know, which obviously is under question right now.

Maybe not the best site since they are pretty one sided IMO and slow to update
- SLED CWP section under reciprocity....South Carolina Law Enforcement Division

Duty to Retreat

As a general matter, before using deadly force, even in self-defense, you have a duty to retreat in the following circumstances:

1.on a public street or highway, even when in own automobile. State v. McGee, 185 S.C. 184, 190, 193 S.E. 303, 306 (1937).

<--Comment: Castle Doctrine now states your own auto falls under stand your ground, which isn't truely protected under Castle Doctrine, can't OC in your auto which is your real property, but can in your "real property:" house, farm, apartment, place of business, etc. but it does allowe for Stand your Ground.

2.in a store where the public is invited. State v. Peeples, 126 S.C. 422, 120 S.E. 361 (1923).

[melloyello]

There is no duty to retreat in SC any more even in public places. The change in the law came about around 5-6 years ago along with the castle doctrine bill and is commonly referred to as "Stand Your Ground". I basically is the same as Castle Doctrine but in public. You must be in a place you have a right to be, you must not be breaking any laws an you must not be a fault for bring the action. If you meet those three requirements then you do not have to retreat even in public.

When I took the CWP class the second time it was a shock for me to learn about that as before I had been taught the Duty to Retreat principle the first time.

FN,

I know of the Castle Doctrine, 16-11-440, would you cite SC Law that stipulates public places not "Castle" areas. I went out of state for a while and when I came back to SC, re-took my CWP (2 years ago), there were a lot of changes but mostly pertained to the Castle Doctrine: house, business, auto, real property.

SECTION 16-11-440. Presumption of reasonable fear of imminent peril when using deadly force against another unlawfully entering residence, occupied vehicle or place of business. [SC ST SEC 16-11-440]

(A) A person is presumed to have a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to himself or another person when using deadly force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury to another person if the person:

(1) against whom the deadly force is used is in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or has unlawfully and forcibly entered a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if he removes or is attempting to remove another person against his will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

(2) who uses deadly force knows or has reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act is occurring or has occurred.

(B) The presumption provided in subsection (A) does not apply if the person:

(1) against whom the deadly force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle including, but not limited to, an owner, lessee, or titleholder; or

(2) sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship, of the person against whom the deadly force is used; or

(3) who uses deadly force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

(4) against whom the deadly force is used is a law enforcement officer who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle in the performance of his official duties, and he identifies himself in accordance with applicable law or the person using force knows or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter is a law enforcement officer.

(C) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in another place where he has a right to be, including, but not limited to, his place of business, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he reasonably believes it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or another person or to prevent the commission of a violent crime as defined in Section 16-1-60.

(D) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person's dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or a violent crime as defined in Section 16-1-60.

(E) A person who by force enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle in violation of an order of protection, restraining order, or condition of bond is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act regardless of whether the person is a resident of the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle including, but not limited to, an owner, lessee, or titleholder.

[blume357@]

the new castle doctrine law changes where the burden of proof after the fact is... that is all.

you still have a duty to retreat before using deadly force... my point is now after the fact and your use of deadly force the burden is on them to prove you did not have the right to use deadly force....

at least that's how I see it.

you are still going to be in a world of trouble and have a lot of spare time on your hands sitting around waiting for various leo's to talk to you.

[FN1910]

If you are in a place where you have the right to be. Although they are included in the Castle Doctirne codes they cover any place public or ptivate.

S.C. Code of Laws Title 16 Chapter 11 Offenses Against Property - www.scstatehouse.gov-LPITS

16-11-420

(E) The General Assembly finds that no person or victim of crime should be required to surrender his personal safety to a criminal, nor should a person or victim be required to needlessly retreat in the face of intrusion or attack

SC Code 16-11-440

(C) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in another place where he has a right to be, including, but not limited to, his place of business, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he reasonably believes it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or another person or to prevent the commission of a violent crime as defined in Section 16-1-60.