What is your Number One SHTF Gun?

[Ed Hurtley]

Whatever I'm carrying at the time.

It really depends on what kind of S is HTF.

I'm in Portland, in a residential neighborhood on the edge of town. It's a good "safe" neighborhood. Not much crime, the neighbors all know each other.

Here in Portland, there are two major easily possible natural disasters, earthquake or volcano. None of the volcanoes are close enough for me to have to worry about direct blast/lava, so it's ashfall (and the very possible accompanying earthquake,) I have to worry about. If Mt. Hood blew its top just right the Columbia river basin could end up with massive flooding, pyroclastic flow, maybe even a tsunami. But there are a couple dams between there and here, and I'm far enough off the river basin to be safe - but it could of course completely screw up parts of Portland further away.

So, heavy ashfall. Completely stops all travel. Kills wildlife and ground plants. Potentially collapses roofs. My house is built such that it would be safe, but if ashfall were heavy enough (would have to be significantly more than Mt. St. Helens dropped in 1980,) it could potentially trap us indoors if we let it. In that instance, it's "bunker in place", even if not trapped indoors. With bunker-in-place, our neighborhood is fairly safe. Only have to worry about in-the-vicinity hooligans. That is easy to defend with my standard 9mm carry pistol.

An earthquake, on the other hand, would be different. In a sufficiently large earthquake, my house would likely be damaged enough to be unsafe to live in (although I doubt it would completely collapse.) It would devastate infrastructure, making travel out of town difficult-but-not-impossible from my location. That would have similar issues to Katrina in New Orleans. I could see 'roving marauders' in that instance. Good semi-auto, high-cap rifle. I have an SKS with a couple 30-round mags and a 75-round drum. That's sufficient. (I'm accurate to over 100 yards with it, which, again, should be more than sufficient.) That would be short-term "SHTF", where I would like set up a tent in my back yard and wait a short time to see if life would be possible to return to normal quickly. If it comes down to it, I have a couple large tents, a large edible-garden, enough food for a couple months stored, and have a creek on my property I could (with stored tablets or boiling) purify water from easily enough. I could survive long term "off-grid" in this urban neighborhood just fine if I needed to, given the promise of law-and-order within a reasonable amount of time. But more likely if it wasn't obvious that normality would return imminently, I'd leave town after a week to stay with relatives in an unaffected location.


Then there are the "apocalyptic" scenarios. Completely breakdown of society on a wide enough scale that "retreat to relatives where life is normal" isn't a realistic option. These are so ridiculously unlikely as to be silly to spend significant effort preparing solely for these scenarios. I'm not going to go buy a .50 fully automatic solely to defend myself against a Chinese invasion. For something like this, it would be a "wing it". It's not worth my time and effort to plan for something that would be so unlikely - combined with the fact that in all likelihood, my plan would become invalid anyway. Oh, I enjoy good apocalyptic fiction (currently re-reading the "Emberverse" trilogy,) and find "survival" ideas fun (like the zombie proof house, etc,) this type of scenario isn't worth the time and money to prepare for, above and beyond preparing for realistically-possible scenarios.


A local terrorist attack, to me, would fall similar to an earthquake. If it is something that devastates a part of the city, and makes the city completely nonfunctional, but does not itself provide long-term danger (a massive bombing, a one-time chemical attack, infrastructure sabotage,) then I'd treat it similarly to the earthquake. If normalcy seems imminent, stay, if not, leave for a relative. If it WOULD provide long-term danger (nuclear or biological attack,) bug-out immediately to safety.

In any "bug out to safety" scenario (earthquake or terrorist attack, immediately or after a week,) my carry pistol plus my SKS is more than sufficient. (Although if I bug out, I'd take my 'travel case' with shotgun, SKS, and Mosin-Nagant. Got all three long-gun uses covered.)

[walt629]

You know.... when TSHTF, I'm staying put. My house is a bunker, well defensible and everything I need to mount a defense is right here. So why would I be grabbing anything and running?

There would have to be a tidal wave coming to get me to leave my home. And if that's the case, where I am, it's just time to kiss the wife, tell her it's been a good life and let it come.

I mean, I'm just asking.

[hotti]

u THINK? And it protects you from night time raiders with molotov cocktails, no sniper can approach at night, to within 300 yds, dig a little trench, cover up with his ghillie suit (local vegetation, hammock and poncho) lay there all day, plink you at near dusk, and escape the following night? All "forts" do is make everyone aware that you have something worth defending., It takes at least 20 motivated, non-distracted (by loved ones)trained, aware, equipped men to watch over much of anything, 24-7, and they have to GET there, if shtf, not wounded, not sick, and not bring lots of worthless friends/relatives with them. So the "fort" idea is not feasible, really. People who have not thought thru just think it is.

[mappow]

THREE words, Adapt, Overcome and Improvise. Can't possibly plan for all scenarios but can prepare.

I do agree with you Walt, where ya going to run to? Just mount the best defense and still kiss the wife.

[1911 Headbanger]

Okay, I have to admit I ripped this from another blog entry about SHTF topic, but here goes...

M14/M1A: Clunky, heavy, and overpowered. Essentially a Garand tarted up with a removable magazine, in a half-baked attempt to adapt a 19th century rifle design philosophy to the mid-20th century. Most often named as favorite infantry rifle by people who never had to hump a 10-pound wood-stocked rifle with lots of sharp protrusions and no collapsible anything on a three day exercise, or try to make it through a firefight with the standard battle load of five 20-round magazines.

Glock: Butt-ugly plastic shooting appliance with the ergonomics of a caulking gun. Five-pound trigger with no external safety makes it ill suited for its target market (cops who shoot a hundred rounds a year for qualification). Favored by gangbangers because the product name is short and rhymes with other short, rap-friendly words.

1911: Overweight and overly complex piece of late 19th century technology. Low capacity, useless sights in stock form, and a field-stripping procedure that requires three hands. Favored by people who are at the cutting edge of handgun technology and combat shooting…of the 1960s.

Let the gnashing of teeth begin! LOL!!

OK, so we've narrowed it down that you are trying to get something going. It's obvious from your last quote. Not to mention that I think I've seen your copy and pasted response on about 40 other forums and threads. So it appears, you are knowlegeable about copy and paste, but not at firearms. I congradulate you that you know how to use a couple of buttons on your computer. Now, onto your firearms response:

First, I never said I would be humping through the boonies with anything. I bug in. I'm a big guy and can handle, and hump heavy rifles and gear. I have done that. The M1A SOCOM is fine like it is. The power factor is nice to have when needed and recoil is mild. If it's just too "Overpowered" for you, then I'm sure a 22, a 223 or a 410 will fill your bill. Carry what you want and be happy. I don't care if you like the rifle or not. My post was to answer a thread question on what "I" would use as my SHTF guns. Not to try to convince you to like anything.

Next, the Glock and the 1911. I have used them both in self defense situations where I actually had to shoot people. They work. Unless you have done the same, then don't bother telling me how useless they are. My Father, Grandfather and Great Grandfather all used 1911 effectively in wartime and Law Enforcement. They work, if you have a knowlegeable shooter standing behind them. Once again, if you don't like the 1911, fine. Use what you want. I could care less if you think my guns are worthless. Because frankly, I wouldn't trust your gun knowlege. However, if I ever need someone to teach me how to push a couple of buttons and play on the internet, I will call you, because you are prepared in that category. Thanks for the eye opening response John Browning.

By the way. What do you think the guys were humping through the boonies in WWII, Korea, and the beginning of Vietnam? I'll give you a hint. It involves Garands, M14's and 1911's. Just sayin'.

[mercdragon]

Et Al,
Carry with me in the worst case, M1 Garand, Colt .38 Super or .45. Bug out gear goes everywhere as one kit is im my truck. The M1 will stop 98% of the long range threats and either of the calibres will stop quickly at close range.

Take care and be safe
pfb

[gunnerbob]

You know.... when TSHTF, I'm staying put. My house is a bunker, well defensible and everything I need to mount a defense is right here. So why would I be grabbing anything and running?

There would have to be a tidal wave coming to get me to leave my home. And if that's the case, where I am, it's just time to kiss the wife, tell her it's been a good life and let it come.

I mean, I'm just asking.

Well, the thing is your situation may not mirror anothers. Like for me... staying put in an actual SHTF/worst case scenario is not ideal. I have other obligations to my family that, if able, I will go to where the majority of them are. If I am not able, I will make due wherever I am. If it is a minor situation I'll probably stay put... it is all situation dependent. Everything is situation dependent, everything. A plan is usually a list of things that don't happen... so you have to have multiple contingency plans, and continency plans for those plans! You have to be able to think on your feet and adapt to situations as they happen. One train of thought is deadly in life or death situations! And remember, you'll never learn faster than when you're being shot at! And yes, I know from experiance. I'm an OEF veteran... being shot at teaches you things you never thought you'd know, like how scared ch!tless a grown man can be. And how every situation is different and training to adapt is more important that having a set plan.

Take from this whatever you want though.

[santa]

I would take my Henry lever action 22LR and a 22LR handgun. This way IF something happens to one of the guns the ammunition is still good in the other. Also carrying a brick(500 rounds) is not difficult nor bulky compared to for instance 500 rounds of 38 special. 22LR is the most widely available caliber in the world so there is a good chance of finding more ammunition if needed. A 22LR can be used for hunting as well as protection from the two-legged creatures.