God, the Bible & Survivalism

[jibbster]

In many countries the rounding up of Christians, great persecution, has been going on for a long time. We in this country have enjoyed freedoms much of the world would give everything they have to obtain. Many of you know who Corrie ten Boom was. Perhaps you have read the book or seen the Movie the Hiding Place. In one of her other books she wrote that a minister in China told her once that if he had one thing to do over again he would not teach his flock about a pre trib rapture. When she ask why he said when the communists took over China and great persecution came upon the church the Christians wanted to know why God had not "raptured" them out before their tribulation started. It really shook their faith. How long will it be before real persecution comes here in America. I don't know for sure but I am afraid it will be sooner than later. The one thing I am sure of is it will come.

HK4U, I agree... unfortunately, they have been chipping away at the rock of Christianity in America for the last few decades..little by little, with most people not noticing the overall errosion... removing God from school, assaults on the Ten Commandments in public places, complete mis-interpretation of the separation of church and state...the sheeple digest it little by little and don't see the big picture. It may not come to full persecution in our lifetime, but I fear for my children's generation....if we are still on this planet then

[Ringo]

It may not come to full persecution in our lifetime, but I fear for my children's generation....if we are still on this planet then

The Lord made it crystal clear that the last generation is the generation that is witness to Israel becoming a nation once again in the End Times. That was 1948. There will not be a generation for our children. The generation of 1948 WILL NOT PASS AWAY until ALL of prophecy has come to pass. That my friend includes, anti-Christ, Armageddon, the whole ball of wax.

[Conservative Wife & Mom]

The Lord made it crystal clear that the last generation is the generation that is witness to Israel becoming a nation once again in the End Times. That was 1948. There will not be a generation for our children. The generation of 1948 WILL NOT PASS AWAY until ALL of prophecy is fulfilled. That my friend includes, anti-Christ, Armageddon, the whole ball of wax.

+1, Ringo. I completely agree with what you say about the "last generation"...even though I am a pan-trib. It'll all pan out in the end!

[jibbster]

The Lord made it crystal clear that the last generation is the generation that is witness to Israel becoming a nation once again in the End Times. That was 1948. There will not be a generation for our children. The generation of 1948 WILL NOT PASS AWAY until ALL of prophecy has come to pass. That my friend includes, anti-Christ, Armageddon, the whole ball of wax.

Hadn't considered that, Ringo.... interesting point

[HK4U]

The Lord made it crystal clear that the last generation is the generation that is witness to Israel becoming a nation once again in the End Times. That was 1948. There will not be a generation for our children. The generation of 1948 WILL NOT PASS AWAY until ALL of prophecy has come to pass. That my friend includes, anti-Christ, Armageddon, the whole ball of wax.

I agree with the 1948 date being key. I also think the verse that says Jerusalem will be trodden down until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled was fulfilled in 1967.

[Alaska444]

ALASKA, I can't always nail down the exact sequence of events, but let me ask you if you agree that at the Rapture, all of the saints (believers) from the beginning, will be Raptured? Then, the first resurrection takes place at the end of the Tribulation/beginning of the millennium , to include those martyred during the Tribulation. This is the Bema Seat judgment. The second resurrection is at the end of the millennium where all non-believers are judged (White Throne Judgment) and cast into the Lake of Fire for all eternity. Note, many consider the Rapture as a resurrection also ,making it three resurrections. What is your understanding?

Dear Ringo, If you go to john chapter 11 and the story of the resurrection of Lazarus, a very interesting exchange between Jesus and Martha:

John 11:21T hen said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.

22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give [it] thee.

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

I think what Martha said is actually very telling about the last day. It is one more confirmation of the seven thousand year view of world history. If what Martha states is actual fact, then that fits well with the resurrection that will occur during the thousand year millenial reign of Christ that we hear about in Revelation chapter 20:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Taken together with Martha's statement and the clear reference to the resurrection being those that will live and reign with Jesus for a thousand years. Technically, those taken in the rapture will also be reigning with Christ as well as those that are beheaded in the Tribulation as well as the resurrected Jews from the first covenant as Martha I believe correctly states. The resurrection therefore and the rapture are not the same issue, but separate issues unto themselves. Once again, you must remember that God will keep every promise He ever made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Look through Ezekiel chapter 34-37 to see many of those promises and the valley of bones that comes alive again. David shall once again lead his people but this time, Jesus shall sit on His throne in Jerusalem instead of in Heaven. Once again, look at the very last verse in Ezekiel The second resurrection is that of the dead, but that is a resurrection unto the second death. The rapture and the resurrection are different issues in the sense that those that are part of the rapture will also partake of the first resurrection as well. I don't see any references to a third resurrection.

[Ringo]

Dear Ringo, If you go to john chapter 11 and the story of the resurrection of Lazarus, a very interesting exchange between Jesus and Martha:

John 11:21T hen said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.

22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give [it] thee.

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

I think what Martha said is actually very telling about the last day. It is one more confirmation of the seven thousand year view of world history. If what Martha states is actual fact, then that fits well with the resurrection that will occur during the thousand year millenial reign of Christ that we hear about in Revelation chapter 20:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Taken together with Martha's statement and the clear reference to the resurrection being those that will live and reign with Jesus for a thousand years. Technically, those taken in the rapture will also be reigning with Christ as well as those that are beheaded in the Tribulation as well as the resurrected Jews from the first covenant as Martha I believe correctly states. The resurrection therefore and the rapture are not the same issue, but separate issues unto themselves. Once again, you must remember that God will keep every promise He ever made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Look through Ezekiel chapter 34-37 to see many of those promises and the valley of bones that comes alive again. David shall once again lead his people but this time, Jesus shall sit on His throne in Jerusalem instead of in Heaven. Once again, look at the very last verse in Ezekiel The second resurrection is that of the dead, but that is a resurrection unto the second death. The rapture and the resurrection are different issues in the sense that those that are part of the rapture will also partake of the first resurrection as well. I don't see any references to a third resurrection.

Thanks Alaska, that's my understanding as well. Your orientation is excellent, makes things much easier to relate, great job.

[Ringo]

+1, Ringo. I completely agree with what you say about the "last generation"...even though I am a pan-trib. It'll all pan out in the end!

Yes Mom, it will all pan out in the end. I won't go into a lot of detail, and many will not agree, but I'll share my generation timetable with you anyway because I believe it's relevant. I'm not looking for an argument, everyone can believe what they wish. I didn't put this together, those with a lot more knowledge than I, did. I just want to share. I won't post scripture, instead just keep it simple. God has said that a mans years of life shall be 70 years (normal), after 70 were on overtime. Therefore it's fair to say that a generation is 70 years. Israel became a nation again as God said it would in the End Times, that happened in 1948. Add 70 years to 1948 and you get 2018. Subtract 7 years for the Tribulation Period, you get 2011. I firmly believe that the Rapture is much closer than anyone expects, the Lord said, "at a time you think not". I also firmly believe that the Tribulation period will begin no later than 2011. The generation (70 years)that is witness to the restoration of Israel (the blossoming fig tree) in 1948, would not pass until ALL was fulfilled, 2018. Some may view it differently, however, the series of events and the scenario prophesied can never be repeated again outside of our present time-line.

[jibbster]

Yes Mom, it will all pan out in the end. I won't go into a lot of detail, and many will not agree, but I'll share my generation timetable with you anyway because I believe it's relevant. I'm not looking for an argument, everyone can believe what they wish. I didn't put this together, those with a lot more knowledge than I, did. I just want to share. I won't post scripture, instead just keep it simple. God has said that a mans years of life shall be 70 years (normal), after 70 were on overtime. Therefore it's fair to say that a generation is 70 years. Israel became a nation again as God said it would in the End Times, that happened in 1948. Add 70 years to 1948 and you get 2018. Subtract 7 years for the Tribulation Period, you get 2011. I firmly believe that the Rapture is much closer than anyone expects, the Lord said, "at a time you think not". I also firmly believe that the Tribulation period will begin no later than 2011. The generation (70 years)that is witness to the restoration of Israel (the blossoming fig tree) in 1948, would not pass until ALL was fulfilled, 2018. Some may view it differently, however, the series of events and the scenario prophesied can never be repeated again outside of our present time-line.

Good stuff, Ringo...thanks for posting! It will give me some more scriptural material to research