School facilities: pick up/drop off

[luv2shoot]

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.280

RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.
...
(3)
(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
...


It's obvious that one can't enter a school building even with a CPL, but I'm wondering if one with a CPL, in possession and concealing, can exit their vehicle and occupy ANY SPACE on school premises but outside the buildings for the purpose of "picking up or dropping off a student."

Has anyone heard of any stories, case law, etc., where this has been an issue or clarified? Or is it just plain obvious and I'm overly concerned?

Thanks.

[redboneshadow]

Specifically you cannot have a gun on school property. That being said the sidewalk and street surrounding the school is public property even though it is classified as a school zone. You can legally drop off and pick up on the street with no problem at all. Some think that if you have a permit and get stopped for a traffic infraction by a school you can go to jail. That is false.

Believe it or not you can open carry through a school zone because it is NOT school property. It is city property. I have done this with no issues. You just cannot have a weapon ON school property. But as we all know that doesn't work since kids do take guns and knives on school property. Just another feel warm and fuzzy law brought to you by the anti-gun folks.

[luv2shoot]

"Specifically you cannot have a gun on school property."

You seem to have a more restrictive read on this section. Can you explain how you come to that conclusion?

Part 1 of the RCW:

"(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools::"

Part 3:

"(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

...

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
..."

I see this as saying I can carry (with CPL) ON the premises as long as I'm picking up or dropping off a student.

Part 6:

"(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building."

This, of course, limits me to the outside.


Thanks.

[redboneshadow]

Right here: (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools::"

Public or private School Property.

[luv2shoot]

What about section 3 exemptions?

[NavyLCDR]

Right here: (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools::"

Public or private School Property.

Respectfully, read the first few words of subsection (3):

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

When a CPL holder is picking up or dropping off a student, there is no prohibition on entering the building, either. In the process of picking up or dropping off a student, a CPL holder can carry ON school property and IN the buildings, just like anywhere else. For instance, my daughter gets sick and is waiting in the nurse's office.... with my CPL I am never required to disarm while retrieving her from the nurse's office to take her home.

Public school districts fall under state preemption and cannot enact firearms regulations more stringent than state law. Private schools can enact whatever rules they want to. Public universities prohibit firearms via Washington Administrative Codes - however, that does not make carrying a firearm at a public university a crime, it only makes it so they can forcibly remove you from university property under trespassing laws.

Firearms must also be prohibited in licensed daycare centers, to comply with the licensing requirements set forth in the Washington Administrative code as well.

[S&WM&P40]

"Specifically you cannot have a gun on school property."

You seem to have a more restrictive read on this section. Can you explain how you come to that conclusion?

Part 1 of the RCW:

"(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools::"

Part 3:

"(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

...

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
..."

I see this as saying I can carry (with CPL) ON the premises as long as I'm picking up or dropping off a student.

Part 6:

"(6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building."

This, of course, limits me to the outside.


Thanks.

He is right in what he said. Sidewalks are not school property they are public even if they pass in front of a school building. Once your in their driveway you are now on their property and subject to all their rules.

[luv2shoot]

"When a CPL holder is picking up or dropping off a student, there is no prohibition on entering the building, either."

I had thought that would make sense up to 3.e. (even though I've never done it) but then I saw 6. Section 6 only allows for exceptions provided in 3.b., 3.c., 3.f., and 3.h., which would then not allow a CPL holder to possess in the buildings. That's how it looks to me.

---

Previously from redboneshadow: "Believe it or not you can open carry through a school zone because it is NOT school property."

Doesn't the GFSZA of 1995 outlaw this? I don't OC but have also not had an occasion to have a loaded firearm in a vehicle in the 1000' zone, so I'm still looking at the laws on this one.

Thanks.

[redboneshadow]

With CPL dropping off or picking up is fine.

[NavyLCDR]

"When a CPL holder is picking up or dropping off a student, there is no prohibition on entering the building, either."

I had thought that would make sense up to 3.e. (even though I've never done it) but then I saw 6. Section 6 only allows for exceptions provided in 3.b., 3.c., 3.f., and 3.h., which would then not allow a CPL holder to possess in the buildings. That's how it looks to me.

---

Previously from redboneshadow: "Believe it or not you can open carry through a school zone because it is NOT school property."

Doesn't the GFSZA of 1995 outlaw this? I don't OC but have also not had an occasion to have a loaded firearm in a vehicle in the 1000' zone, so I'm still looking at the laws on this one.

Thanks.

You are correct. I was wrong. Inside the building is off limits while picking up or dropping of a student because of paragraph (6). Outside the vehicle is fine and legal, though.

The Federal GFSZA of 1995 does not apply to persons who are licensed to carry handguns by the state or subdivision of the state in which the school zone is located in.

United States Code: Title 18,922. Unlawful acts | LII / Legal Information Institute

(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;