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#21
10-12-2008, 08:59 AM
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 Wrong Quote:
I asked a simple civil question to clarify your question, so I could provide an response, to your request. Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were not insisting that someone do you a favor as if they were obligated to do so. A favor due to your ignorance and misinterpretation of the laws of the state you live in has you thinking they would be violating the law to do you that favor. Obviously from your verbose, rude, ignorant, uninformed, underlined, bolded, colored, giant lettered, generally ridiculous, obnoxious, nonsensical rant I was wrong. In response to your demand that I do you a favor the answer is NO. I DO NOT owe you anything. You attitude of entitlement is repugnant. I find this culture of people with their hands out acting as if the world owes them something abhorrent and disgusting. No I will not spend my money on gas to drive to Spokane and back for you. I DO NOT owe you anything contrary to what you think. No I will not waste my time driving to Spokane for you. I have no obligation to do so. No I will not walk through the streets of Spokane open carrying with you. I have no desire to waste any time with you. Nor do I need to prove anything to anyone especially not you. Anyone who thinks that they are entitled to favors from me are unworthy of my company. How is it that people are so lazy that they have the nerve to demand others to do for them what they can do for themselves, as if they the world owes them something. Simply typing the words "open carry gun washington state" in Google would have provided these results Quote:
The second link is the forum OpenCarry.Org dedicated to open carry across the United States with over 10,000 members. It has a segment dedicated to Washington State that has hundreds of accounts of open carry in Washington state. An archive with the training bulletins used to train police officers in most major police departments in Washington, open carry information pamphlets, brochures Discussion of specific applicable laws, case laws, Washington state Supreme Courts rulings and interpretation of those laws and cases. Members include Lonnie Wilson mentioned in the first link, pro open carry activists, lawyers, LEO, politicians and law abiding private citizens that open carry all across Washington State. I have shared this NOT because I owe you the information nor because you are entitled to it, nor because you are worthy of my time and effort. Rather you're getting the information is a by product of my hoping to assist other polite civil members who are more than worthy of any effort I may make to assist them. As well as a by product of my showing you that your interpretation of Washington States Laws about open carry law is WRONG
__________________ Those who would, deny, require permit, qualification, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family  |
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#22
10-12-2008, 11:50 AM
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| I know it is legal to open carry in WA I do so going to and from the place I go shooting however that is a 5 minute ride in my truck to a place even further out in the woods than I am. I also go over to opencarry.org from time to time and I am intrigued by the stories from those bold enough to open carry in some down right hostile areas like Seattle. As to Spokane I live close by but when ever I go into the city I don't open carry I always CC. I guess at my age I feel I don't need to deal with any extra BS. Part of the reason open carry is having a hard time is due to the number of current residents who came from places where the mere sight of a gun causes hysteria, one I may mention here is California. Many WA residents have a thinly disguised disgust for recent arrivals from that state. SEattle even recruited a huge number of new LEO's from New York and they have a hard time beleiveing some of our laws. I mention that to paint a picture not to disparage anyone. I have seen a few laws change in the short time I have lived here rules were enacted about dogs being on a leash and burning yard debris etc. So the feeling from long time residents is far different from the changeing demographics currently shaping politics and policies here and now. Times change,
__________________ ["Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Ben Franklin FONT] |
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#23
10-12-2008, 12:37 PM
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__________________ Those who would, deny, require permit, qualification, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family Last edited by LongRider; 10-12-2008 at 12:42 PM. |
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#24
10-12-2008, 03:14 PM
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| Long Rider, You and me agree to disagree 100%. I ask for a law you post a list of links to books, pamphlets, PDF's and publications, throw up a post on how much I have insulted your fragile feelings, then list some colorful insults at me, that is your right I guess to try to push your take on life down others throats, there is a word for that, I think you know what it is. Stats and online links do not impress me, the law gets my attention real fast, so I memorize it when it comes to responsible and legal CCW carry, you seem to want to flaunt it with the misconception that even if this state is listed as an open carry somewhere U can find it online it must be status-quo, I get my laws from http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index , the ONLY State-run cyberspace source where the laws of WA state are displayed that count. One of your links: "Open carry gun laws to Texas? : News : KVII" should tell me ALL I need to know about WA gun laws, and is sure to get me a good laugh in any WA court of law. Tell you what, go your way thru WA displaying your God given right to open carry, like U not caring a wit about me, I am sure a LEO will eventually care enough about you sooner or later carrying your shooter around and "causing alarm for the safety of other persons". (RCW 9.41.270) That will be on the charge sheet somewhere. I will not argue with U, when you can prove as in the law that states this is an open carry state, the kind I can fax or show to my local LEO's then U may B worthy of further civil communications. I point out the RCW's that the law will bust you under and U go melt-down, very mature. Please practise what you preach in your own part of WA, it is probably better you do stay away from Spokane with your current/incorrect mind-set or try it in Spokane and you will find out real fast how much of an open carry state this IS NOT. I asked you not to base law on: "not a police training session minutes" and you made that one of your Google hits, please beat your chest to an audience of folks who do take the very real risks of openly alarming the public by parading around with weapons in plain sight, many who now reside inside Geiger Corrections Facility. Post away but don't mislead our state citizens into legal hassels, U do them no favors. Good bye & expect no reply from me, you are set in your ways, I walk free, discreetly armed and totally legal alarming no one nor feeling the need to. Canis-Lupus
__________________ "The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they perceive veterans of earlier wars and how they were treated and appreciated by this country." George Washington 1789  |
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#25
10-12-2008, 06:23 PM
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| Your interpretation of the law is incorrect you know everything than why ask the question I posted the google search results as it appeared on their page. I thought any moron knew that Google is not 100% and throws up some fliers. I posted the google search results as it appeared on their page. I thought any moron knew that Google is not 100% and throws up some fliers. I provided you with enough information for you to do your own research and confirm that my statement that open carry is legal in Washington State independent of just my say so. Instead of being appreciative and doing your own foot work you continue confirming your ignorance. Pointing out the one Google flier as if that that somehow proves your point Based on case law, your interpretation of the law is incorrect. That is why Seattle Metro PD, Olympia PD, King County PD, Federal Way PD, Kent PD, Everett PD, Bellevue PD, Tacoma PD and yes Spokane PD all have training bulletins explaining how open carry is legal. I provided you with adequate information to verify that for yourself rather than be grateful you continue to spew your nonsense. Obviously you are an ingrate incapable of appreciating when someone does you a favor. You obviously don't want to know what the facts are you need to be right. The fact remains that you are wrong and is easily provable with the information I gave you. Your interpretation of the law is incorrect. Anytime you are willing to put your money where your mouth is I will do the footwork and prove that open carry is NOT illegal in the State of Washington. So take your pick a case of ammo 500 rounds my choice against a case of ammo 500 rounds your choice. Or an AR of my choice against an AR of your choice Time to put up or shut up no more freebees
__________________ Those who would, deny, require permit, qualification, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family Last edited by LongRider; 10-12-2008 at 06:26 PM. |
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#26
10-12-2008, 06:40 PM
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| Mr. Lupus, I feel the need to jump in on this thread because I can see that you are frustrated and possibly confused about some of the legal terms we've been discussing. Let me begin by saying I have worked in LE for the last five years, all in Washington State. My precinct included SeaTac, Burien, White Center, etc. Before that, I lived in Pullman, WA, which is a smaller town but politically fairly similar to Spokane. Let me also say that my boyfriend is also LE. We both have CCWs (him for expediting purchases and me becuase I am no longer LE) and we both carry concealed. Washington State is an "open-carry" state. This means that is is legal (i.e. no permit required) for a person to wear a firearm in the open, assuming they are following all the zoning laws. Brandishing is not the same as Open Carry. If you look closely at the brandishing law you quoted earlier, it says, "...in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons." Let's break it down - "...in a manner...that warrants alarm..." - is carrying a firearm securely in a holster a manner that warrants alarm? No. if you wandered around with an AR-15 strapped to your back, that's a different story. "...At a time and place..." - if you carry your gun to an anti-gun rally, people might have cause to feel that this warrants alarm. If you carry your gun around on your everyday business, it shoudl be no problem. Finally, I would say that the circumstances of your carry also make a difference. If you walk around angry or suspicious looking - if you attempt to hide or flaunt your weapon, you will warrant alarm. If you are acting normally, minding your own business, then you have no intent to intimidate or reasonably warrants alarm. Now, discussion of the law and theory is one thing, but you have asked for personal experience. While I don't carry openly (I believe I am safer if I carry concealed), I have heard - and gone to - many 911 calls for people carrying weapons. Generally, one of these calls is always a 2 officer response (safety first). If the person carrying a weapon is simply walking down the street, minding their own business, then we would ask the reporting party why they called (were they threatened earlier? what was the person doing that caused them alarm?). If the RP says nothing, we MIGHT conduct a Terry stop on the individual (a brief - less than 15 min - detainment to determine ID) and if they had no warrants or felony convictions we would let them go. It does not take an hour to check a person's conviction status, nor would we have any reason to check on a permit - they don't need one to carry openly. The few instances when open carry has resulted in more than just a quick (polite) chat are when a person is a convicted felon, has warrants, is not carrying safely (i.e. gun tucked in waistband with no holster) or has drawn the weapon at some point. I hope this helps you out. I think you will find that most LEOs are very supportive of 2nd amendment rights, particularly when a citizen is willing to look at the police in a cooperative manner rather than an adversarial one. We would have a lot less to do if there were more citizens willing to take care of themselves. Good luck and I hope this information helps. Husky Girl |
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#27
10-15-2008, 05:05 PM
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| Very well spoken
__________________ SC CWP, NR - NH P/R L .45 Randall 1911 .45 Glock 21 |
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#28
10-15-2008, 08:57 PM
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| WA is an open carry state. I live in Seattle. What worries me is that phrase in the RCW that says if you alarm someone while open carrying you can be arrested. It is just another way the anti-gun nuts are trying to limit our rights through legislation. I could be in my yard with my gun on my side as i am all the time and if someone see's it and becomes "alarmed" and calls the police i can go to jail just because of their paranoia. That is the chink in the armor i think.
__________________ "The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." |
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#29
10-15-2008, 09:57 PM
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| Had a situation here in PRHI. I was watering the lawn while OC (on my own property, legal according to HRS 134). One of the neighbors is very "anti", so she called the police to report a "man with a gun". Needless to say, several units responded as well as SSD (PRHI equivalent of SWAT). The initial responding officer didn't even notice my holstered Glock. Only after talking to the lady, did he approach and ask to see my "weapon". I asked how he wanted me to do this. Before he was able to answer, the lieutenant for the nearby substation arrived and informed him that I was "o.k.". (It's helps when you have a good working relationship with the supervisors at the local substation.  ) Anyway, the responding officer advised me that I was "free to go" and I continued watering my lawn. After getting some info from the lady next door and advising her of the laws, the lieutenant came back to my house with a couple uniformed officers. They verified the registration of my pistol for their report, and checked my ID. I asked what this was all about, and the lieutenant informed me that this was training for the FTO in his substation. They were very professional and respectful, so I cooperated. We talked a bit about the laws and how things could be changed so this doesn't happen again. Part of the problem was with the way that the police dispatcher took the information from the lady. Questions like "is the gun in a holster" or "is he waving the gun around" weren't asked by the dispatcher. Had the dispatcher gotten more info like "do you know who the man is" or "what is he doing", the situation would have been handled a lot differently. All the officers got over the radio was a address and "Lady reports a man with a gun". Since that incident, officers were called 2 or 3 more times (a lot of aniti-gun neighbors). Each time was a lot different from the first time. The officers responded and were very calm and cool with me. They addressed me by name and conducted themselves in a very professional manner. On one occasion, a rookie cop made a comment "you shouldn't be carrying a gun around". Before the FTO could say anything, I responded "If he neighborhood is so safe, then why do YOU carry a gun?" I got a confused look from the rookie, but no response to my question. The FTO advised him that I wasn't breaking any laws, but they were required to collect my personal info. I provided my identification, they made their report, and were on their way. gf
__________________ A few well placed shots with a .22LR is a lot better than a bunch of solid misses with a .44 mag! Glock 19 9mm Glock 23 .40 S&W Glock 27 (x3) .40 S&W STI Edge .45 ACP Taurus 66SS .357 Mag. Mossberg 500 12 Gauge Remington 860 20 Gauge Remington 700 .308 Win. Ruger 77 .270 Win. Glock Armorer NRA Pistol NRA Rifle Instructor NRA Home Firearm Safety Instructor NRA Member IALEFI Member   |
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#30
10-19-2008, 03:14 PM
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As Gunny said in a much nicer way we have lots of idiots from other pansy liberal states living here that after a few years here think their rules apply and will call the police. We have seen one example here. So expect to have more encounters with LEO when you open carry the obviously need to check out every man with gun call. But even that is changing many dispatch operators know to ask what is he doing is the gun in a holster etc. If they are told that you are just open carrying dispatch will explain to them that is legal. Just like on message boards there are morons who refuse to get it and will keep calling the police. Am example is a woman who lives by Wrights Park in Tacoma who calls on the same guy on a regular basis. Eventually she got told the next call would get her cited for filing a false report or some such thing. Anyway it is legal IMO we should all do so when we are up to it to help make it a more common sight so that people don't get their panties in a bunch over it and than the time will come when it is commonly accepted. Once again people will understand that normal every day law abiding people accept responsibility for their own safety and carry guns to defend themselves
__________________ Those who would, deny, require permit, qualification, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family |
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