This was my experience w/ purchasing a suppressor
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Thread: This was my experience w/ purchasing a suppressor

  1. #1
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    This was my experience w/ purchasing a suppressor

    I just wanted to share my experience with purchasing a suppressor-

    (I also added a paragraph for those living in STL, in terms of where they go to get CLEO signature)

    Only for those who are new to, or are considering the idea of owning a NFA item- and who have not created a Gun Trust.

    About several weeks ago- I purchased a 5.56 Suppressor by YHM- Titanium Q.D. Upon paying for the suppressor, I then gave the information of a Class III FFL that would receive the silencer. Make sure you shop around for transfer price quotes from various Class III dealers first. Make sure the address you list as yours- matches your drivers license.

    This is not your average FFL- these dealers pay a SOT, and are allowed to receive NFA items. This is why the transfer fee they charge is different than a regular non-NFA firearm item. My FFL charges $20 for receiving my regular firearms. He however did not have a license to receive my NFA item. I looked up dealers that do. Class III is what its called. And the dealer that I found, quoted me a price of $50- which i found to be reasonable- and this was the dealer's info that I gave to the online shop that I purchased my suppressor from.

    Then- came the short waiting time- for the suppressor to arrive at my dealer. He printed out my Form 4- and signed the line where it stated "FFL signature"- and checked to make sure my address matched my DL address. He gave me two duplicated of the A) Form 4, and a B) certification of citizenship (This might've been because I'm Chinese, and just easier to give me a form that i don't need, and toss, then vice versa- and in this case, he was correct! I was born in China, but i'm a citizen of the States). And C) two fingerprint sheets.

    A) The FORM 4 required the chief law enforcement officer's signature (on both forms, bc you need to send duplicates of everything to the ATF)- in the county that you reside in. I went to the sheriff's dept. and they had me drop it off. A day later, called me for me to pick it up. During this time, i went to walgreens and got a passport pic taken, because you need to provide 2, 2x2 photos to glue onto form 4. One for each form.
    B) Filled out the form certifying that I am a citizen
    C) I went to the police headquarters to do fingerprinting. My police HQ only does it on Tuesday and Thursdays- and they charged a total of $8 for the two sheets of fingerprinting.
    D) I went to the post office and purchased a money order for $200, and made it out to the ATF

    I photocopied everything- to keep record for myself, and then mailed the duplicates in one envelope, along with the $200 money order, to the listed address on the Form 4. And then the waiting begins!!

    *For those living in St. Louis County: Go to Police Headquarters in Clayton. You will get your signature from the Police Chief. Go to "Private Security" office on ground level. You can get your fingerprints done in this building as well. Drop off paperwork to the clerk, and they will call you for pick up in a few days.
    *For those living in St. Louis City: Go to the Sheriff's office, on the 8th floor of the Civil Court House (10 N. Tucker Blvd, 63101, at the corner of Tucker and Chestnut). Drop off your paperwork and they will call you in a few days to pick up. City Police HQ is on a block adjacent to the Civil Court building and does fingerprinting on Tuesday and Thursdays. They take cash only and I believe fingerprinting is $2 per card. (or $4 per card. I forget).

    And somewhere along the time period of 7-10 months- you will receive your tax stamp. Yes. 7-10months.
    When you receive the tax stamp in the mail- and besides the fact that lying about anything on that form is either very serious, or a felony- do not forget that its important to give the current address, which must match your drivers license address- because that is where they mail your tax stamp to (I had to stop at the DMV to update my address on DL just for this very reason)- you will then take the tax stamp to your dealer- and he will charge you a transfer fee (in my case, $50)- and off you go with your new toy!!

    It was this process that brought me to the whole, and current/pending process of starting a gun trust. With a gun trust- you can shorten that waiting period to about 3 months. The reason for this, is because NFA items purchased/acquired thru a gun trust (aka NFA trust), or a corp/LLC- are candidates for using ATF's E-FILING option. This is much faster. E-Filing allows you to simply scan the documents necessary- and pay the tax stamp with a credit card. And one of the awesome perks of having a gun trust, is that you can skip getting CLEO's signature, getting fingerprinted, and getting photos taken (<--- i think, on the photo omission). It also allows you to list other trustees or beneficiaries. These people will be allowed to have your NFA item in possession- and use them. NFA items are legal, but have a lot of restrictions. One of them being that no one else but you can handle them or- be present while they're being handled. There are great threads in this section about the perks of a gun/NFA trust.

    I myself- today just started the process of handling my own gun trust, without hiring an attorney. Tips/questions are all welcome.

    Thanks

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  3. #2
    Good post. I'd like to add a few points as a Class 3 SOT dealer.
    -You do not need to send a money order with your forms. My customers send out personal checks all the time. Make sure it doesn't bounce. Paying with personal check is nice because you can see when the ATF cashes it. This ususlly takes a few months, but is a sign that someone has picked up your application.
    -An NFA trust reduces your wait time by 1-2 months since the ATF does not run a background check on trusts. You will however need to complete a 4473 and brady Background check when you pick up your NFA item.
    -Class 3 dealer transfer costs vary because the level of service you gets varies. I charge more than $50, but that's because I assist my customers through the entire process. I complete most of the forms for them before they arrive and sit with them while they complete the rest so that no errors are made. As an SOT, I should have more experience with the forms than my customers. Remember that your merchandise is taking up space in my save for half a year. I expect that you will call or e-mail me many times durring that waiting period. if I only carged $50, you wouldn't get much attention from me because I can't make any money if I spend all my time babysitting NFA transfers. Since I don't want to compromise service, I charge more.

  4. I've not heard a suppressor on a 5.56 firearm that reduced the report drastically, since the ammo is still supersonic.

    Subsonic ammo, and a suppressor is a fantastic combo. I could see going through the trouble to get a stamp on a handgun or pistol caliber carbine that fired subsonic ammo.

    I personally wouldn't purchase a suppressor for any rifle or handgun with supersonic ammo. YMMV
    I'm a firm believer in two term limits for all politicians; one in office, the other in prison.

  5. #4
    -Then your opinion is based on the fact that you, like most people have never been downrange from an approaching bullet. On supersonic ammo, if you are down range, you may hear the supersonic crack, if the bullet is close, then you will hear the muzzle report. The muzzle report is louder and is directional, meaning that the animal you just shot at knows where the shot came from. The supersonic crack is localized and does not tell the prey from where the shot derived, therefore he does not know where to run to get away. Suppressors also make great flash hiders, so when hunting at night, you aren't blinded and again, your position remains concealed.

    -I shoot .300 BLK through my SBR and suppressor. Without the suppressor, the 8.2" barrel is deafening. With the suppressor and supersonic ammo, it is hearing safe. With subsonic ammo, I can hear the action of the rifle and hear the bullet strike the target/backstop.

    -The YHM Phantom reduces muzzle report by 30-34dB. A good set of earmuffs reduce noise by the same amount.

    -She likes her new toy. The time for bashing her opinion has passed. IMHO
    HootenArmory.com FFL/SOT, NRA instructor, TX CHL instructor located in Rockwall, TX

  6. #5
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    A few weeks ago we had an IDPA night shoot. Many people brought their AR-15 suppressed rifles. It did make a difference. I was able to remove my hearing protection while they were on the line just so I could see for myself the difference it made. But you are right that when using sub sonic ammo it is a different animal altogether.
    Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress;
    but I repeat myself.
    Mark Twain

  7. Quote Originally Posted by HootenArmory View Post
    -Then your opinion is based on the fact that you, like most people have never been downrange from an approaching bullet. On supersonic ammo, if you are down range, you may hear the supersonic crack, if the bullet is close, then you will hear the muzzle report. The muzzle report is louder and is directional, meaning that the animal you just shot at knows where the shot came from. The supersonic crack is localized and does not tell the prey from where the shot derived, therefore he does not know where to run to get away. Suppressors also make great flash hiders, so when hunting at night, you aren't blinded and again, your position remains concealed.

    -I shoot .300 BLK through my SBR and suppressor. Without the suppressor, the 8.2" barrel is deafening. With the suppressor and supersonic ammo, it is hearing safe. With subsonic ammo, I can hear the action of the rifle and hear the bullet strike the target/backstop.

    -The YHM Phantom reduces muzzle report by 30-34dB. A good set of earmuffs reduce noise by the same amount.

    -She likes her new toy. The time for bashing her opinion has passed. IMHO
    Excuse me? Bashing her opinion? First, I'm not going to be downrange from a supersonic round. Second, what I hear is what I hear behind the breech of the firearm, as you pointed-out. Doesn't change my opinion, and it certainly doesn't mean I am *bashing* anybody's opinion.

    I've heard supersonic and non supersonic rounds, with a suppressor, same caliber from the shooters position, and the supersonic rounds leave a huge report from the muzzle. The non supersonic rounds (.22cal.), not so much as a pffft. Unscrew the suppressor and shoot another supersonic round (5.56), and the difference in report between it and the suppressed supersonic round was not noticeable.

    I'm not taking issue with anything you say about your experiences with suppressors on a variety of calibers and rifles and effects near and far.

    I'm basing my observations on what I have heard, hence, the YMMV. I don't feel a suppressor on my AR-15 5.56 would give me bang-for-buck satisfaction. Just an opinion.

    The suppressor (I don't know the brand, but it was large) was used on the AR platforms with both 5.56 (using XM193), and .22 cal. using super and subsonic ammo. The subsonic .22 cal. ammo with suppressor was so quiet no ear protection was needed at all. There was essentially little report. Quieter than all of my airguns, except my precharged pneumatics. The rounds hitting the steel was all that was really heard.
    I'm a firm believer in two term limits for all politicians; one in office, the other in prison.

  8. #7
    Please don't be offended. She posted her story, clearly excited about her suppressor she waited 7 months for and posted about the process of obtaining one. Your response was simply one that sounded as if you believe she wasted her money.

    At the range, directly behind the breach of a gun there are a lot of factors that affect the volume of the report. You'll see any good demo video of a suppressor will be out in the open because most covered firing lines reflect the concussive pressure waves back at the shooters and increase volume. Comparing .22LR subsonic or supersonic to a center fire round is apples to oranges.

    Again, sorry if I offended. You've been here 26 months longer than I have.
    HootenArmory.com FFL/SOT, NRA instructor, TX CHL instructor located in Rockwall, TX

  9. Quote Originally Posted by HootenArmory View Post
    Please don't be offended. She posted her story, clearly excited about her suppressor she waited 7 months for and posted about the process of obtaining one. Your response was simply one that sounded as if you believe she wasted her money.

    At the range, directly behind the breach of a gun there are a lot of factors that affect the volume of the report. You'll see any good demo video of a suppressor will be out in the open because most covered firing lines reflect the concussive pressure waves back at the shooters and increase volume. Comparing .22LR subsonic or supersonic to a center fire round is apples to oranges.

    Again, sorry if I offended. You've been here 26 months longer than I have.
    No offense taken. Doesn't matter how long any of us have been here. Was just giving an opinion based on my experience. I made the reference to sonic/subsonic rounds (.22 cal.) because of the drastic contrast a suppressor makes between those rounds of the same caliber, not comparing a rim fire round to a center fire round.

    The only reference to a center fire round to a center fire round I *would* positively make is the .45 acp. Another case where a suppressor makes a huge, drastic difference in report, because the round is subsonic to start with. It's also the reason I won't be buying a suppressor for supersonic rounds.

    My ideal suppressor purchase would be for a .45acp Kel-Tec Sub2000 carbine. I've had my wandering eye on that carbine for quite some time now, and Ms. Chen's description was appreciated because of the trouble/time it would take to outfit that carbine with a suppressor. I meant no ridicule or bashing of Ms. Chen's ordeal with a dysfunctional branch of our government. If she feels my post was derogatory in any way, I will apologize to her as well.

    All is good.
    I'm a firm believer in two term limits for all politicians; one in office, the other in prison.

  10. "I've heard supersonic and non supersonic rounds, with a suppressor, same caliber from the shooters position, and the supersonic rounds leave a huge report from the muzzle. The non supersonic rounds (.22cal.), not so much as a pffft. Unscrew the suppressor and shoot another supersonic round (5.56), and the difference in report between it and the suppressed supersonic round was not noticeable."

    I don't know what type/brand of suppressor your experience reflects but this is NOT my experience with a suppressed .223. A "good" suppressor will reduce the muzzle blast of a .223 to the level of a 22 long rifle HV from an 18" barrel. I do agree that you can't totally silence a supersonic round BUT you can reduce the muzzle blast to a level that is comfortable and safe for unprotected ears. I also agree with the comments about target animals not knowing the location of the shooter using a suppressor as they mostly only hear the "pop" as the bullet passes.

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