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Thread: Best CCW 45 ACP?

  1. #71
    I carry a Glock 30SF (short frame) daily in a Crossbreed Supertuck Deluxe holster with a BeltMan belt. Solid combo, my favorite gun of all time...so far.
    Glock 23, 30SF
    S&W M&P 9c, 40c
    Ruger LCP, 22/45 Mark III

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  3. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    35

    Best .45 for CCW

    Carry the largest pistol you can comfortably conceal, in the largest caliber you can accurately shoot.

    Shot placement is King; Penetration is Queen; Everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin.
    Dan Hammond, Sr.
    Christian and No Foolin' Infidel
    NRA Marksmanship Instructor and Training Counselor, RSO, KS CCH Instructor

  4. #73
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Butner, North Carolina, United States
    Posts
    362

    Cool 9mm needs 11 rds to take out Iraqi

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    you have carried a 9mm but now you want to carry a 45. I think it is odd that you started with a 9mm. In the field, Iraq, they have seen where it takes 11 rounds from the M9 to bring down one enemy. I like to do things right the first time, that means find a caliber that brings them down with one shot. That is the .45 ACP! Kimber is priced to not sell. Sig is a great gun and is easy to get back on target. Springfield Armory XD gives a nice price, but it has the polymer frame. Polymer frame gives a rotating recoil, this is the same on the Kahr. Best bet is to find a place that will let you try out the different versions of the 45. I like the 1911. My use is person safety in public and family safety while in bear country. The trouble with bear is they do not fall on the first shot.
    You forgot to add one minor detail... you were issued the std Military NATO 9x19 rds which aren't as hot as those sold commercially. There is nothing wrong with carrying a 9mm loaded with "proper" ammo. I carry Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm +P+ JHP rds in mine, that's quite a bit more punch than your std 9mm Military issue.

  5. The M9 has been more effective at longer ranges than the 45 ACP in combat.Now in the world of LE the 9mm in the +P or +P+ hollowpoint loadings have proven to be as effective as a 45ACP 230 grain hollowpoint.The 45 ACP may be a better choice for indoor use because the round won't over penetrate.Shot placement and proper training is key.Many of the new hollowpoints on the market are very good performers.Just remember if you're carrying a short barrel 45 ACP use a 185 grain +P because the 230 grain won't expand and have effective velocity.I prefer the G30 loaded with 165 grain Powerball.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Ed Hamberger View Post
    You forgot to add one minor detail... you were issued the std Military NATO 9x19 rds which aren't as hot as those sold commercially. There is nothing wrong with carrying a 9mm loaded with "proper" ammo. I carry Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm +P+ JHP rds in mine, that's quite a bit more punch than your std 9mm Military issue.
    I don't know about the standard NATO 9mm. It was my understanding that the government contract for the Beretta M9A1 was modified to include a retention device for slides that went flying off their bases due to 'hot' NATO loads, yet the 92SB-F (M9) had no issue with 9mm +P loads and had a minimal number of failures after 20,000 rounds through a large number of handguns. So I am now puzzled.

    The one thing that I do know for sure is that the NATO loads are hardball and my defense rounds are 'engineered expanding rounds' - makes for a big difference.

    I have read numerous accounts of both 9mm and .45ACP taking numberous rounds to bring down an assailant or the assailant with several rounds having penetrated AND expanded not doing their job and the assailant turning around and making good their escape - some to be found at the local hospital and some to be found en route having bled out along the way.

    The only 'dead stop' shots are, as has been stated here repeatedly, of two forms: (a) a shot to the cerebellum of the brain is dead stop because it cuts all of the transmission lines; and (b) a shot of such destructive power as to 'shock' the body into submission is 'dead stop' simply because of sheer destructive power; and here I am talking of perhaps a 12 ga. round to the cardiovascular triangle loaded with #00 and a magnum load or at the other extreme a HUGE round hitting anywhere and causing such destruction as to give the body cause for pause and shutdown (saw a 125mm (?) round from a Bradley (?) hitting a bad guy the other day and almost vapourizing him as he brought his RPG around to take a shot at the BFV. Now THAT was dead stop to be sure!)

    Anything less is a bleedout and takes time - and again from a personal standpoint I am thinking that I want an all-round round that is going to give me the opportunity to put several rounds into my assailant until he/she stops shooting or advancing.... while at the same time has the velocity and weight to penetrate whatever I need to go through, be it drywall or a car door or window... while at the same time giving me the opportunity to take a cerebellum shot with a handgun (rather than a .308 with optics and a bipod).

    End of story? There is no one perfect round. But there is something about the .45ACP that gives me great comfort and I generally carry (when legal) either my Glock G30, which is a "best CCW 45" or one of the larger sized handguns that I am able to; I love my Kimbers and I love my Sigs and I love my Springfields and...... well, you get the idea. My absolute fav's are my Para's which are built like the proverbial brick outhouse and have never failed me for even a single round. But geez are they heavy and big. When I carry my Para or my Colt Double Eagle I wear a top quality gunbelt (leather-kydex-leather) AND a pair of 1" suspenders. The last thing I want is my pants falling down around my ankles when I draw my handgun from IWB and loosen things up a bit. Mind you, it's tough for the bad guys to laugh so hard and run at the same time so it makes for an easier target, right?

    Rounds? Big and fast. The faster the better AFAIAK.
    Guns? Take your pick. The bigger the better if and when you can. The G30 is my favourite as I can carry 11 rounds in the gun and I can use larger capacity magazines for the reloads when concealment is no longer an issue (I still carry ten rounders for a variety of reasons - I don't have to worry about the regulated maximum capacity of the magazine for instance when travelling).

    Just remember, although off topic, that a 9mm hardball round is like throwing rocks and that is exactly what NATO issue is... 9mm hardball. Useless. And the main reason that so many prefer .45 or the SAW or shotguns. If you are going to be using .45 hardball you have a definite advantage over 9mm hardball. And if you have to fire 9mm hardball you want to launch as many as humanly possible as fast as humanly possible with some degree of accuracy if you must aim for the center of cardiovascular triangle.... and thus we come to the shotgun. The venerable shotgun turns into a favourite because concealment is not an issue versus 9mm NATO hardball rounds and it is much more effective at close range, creating catastrophic tissue damage rapidly to stymy return fire.

    And thus we come full circle yet again. The best CCW .45 ACP?

    (If I could carry a 12ga. concealed that would be what I would carry along with my AR - but I cannot).

  7. Ted Nugent said it best last year he was on Gun Talk and mentioned that he once carried a 1911 45 ACP 230 grain +P and realized it just doesn't have the speed to do what a 10mm does.He shot a boar wth the 45 cal, proper shot placements with no luck.His Glock 20 10mm has been used plenty of times without a problem.I'll take 15 shots vs 8 shots, but remember the the 15 shot gun is more powerfull.

  8. #77
    I used to carry a Glock 23, but couldn't keep the front sight on target. I then went to a mid-sized 1911, and found that while I absolutely loved the 1911, it just wasn't comfortable carrying around all day. Then I got a Glock 36. Its light, conceals perfectly in the small of my back, and I can wear it all day and not be annoyed with discomfort. It was a perfect fit for me. (On a side note, if I had to pick only 1 handgun: 1911 - all day, everyday.)

  9. Quote Originally Posted by hunter won View Post
    The M9 has been more effective at longer ranges than the 45 ACP in combat.Now in the world of LE the 9mm in the +P or +P+ hollowpoint loadings have proven to be as effective as a 45ACP 230 grain hollowpoint.The 45 ACP may be a better choice for indoor use because the round won't over penetrate.Shot placement and proper training is key.Many of the new hollowpoints on the market are very good performers.Just remember if you're carrying a short barrel 45 ACP use a 185 grain +P because the 230 grain won't expand and have effective velocity.I prefer the G30 loaded with 165 grain Powerball.
    Agreed that the 9mm has been more effective at longer ranges than the .45 but I had cause to read a report in the American Rifleman recent issue that suggests this is because the 9mm is more often sprayed (?). I am a convert to lighter and faster .45ACP... going for weight and velocity. Having a look at the Powerball loads right now in fact, along with a few other relatively new rounds.

    I have always said that I do not feel undergunned with my G26 and a good round - that does not mean that I would not prefer to carry bigger and faster, just to be clear. And it certainly does not mean that I am not ever going to stop looking for the best engineered round I can get.

    Keep in mind, please, that 'combat' rounds are not the same as personal defense rounds at all, at all. For one thing, the charge behind the round is different and for another it is 'hardball' and not an engineered self defense round. Keep in mind, as well, that the 9mm round coming out of an M9A1 in hardball is, in itself, not proven to be more effective than the same .45ACP round out of a 1911 in any way, shape or form. Read the latest issue of the American Rifleman that speaks about the history of the M9 sidearm and you will get a feel for the situation. The 9mm round often takes the better part of a magazine to bring down an assailant, either at distance or otherwise. The 9mm round is often spoken of without mentioning what it is coming out of and there is some confusion with regards to its use in fully automatic weapons... so our results appear to be skewed according to the article, whereas stories of .45ACP rounds bringing down a target with a single shot are also skewed due to its length of service and 'old wives' tales' that persist.

    The debate over which round(s) are most effective will continue as long as improvements to same are made and as long as the 'old wives' tales' persist in the memories of LEO's and vets worldwide.

    What we really need to deal with in terms of "Best CCW 45 ACP" is (a) the round being used, and (b) the firearm from which it is being fired; both of which can vary widely in reliability and performance.

    For my part, the round being used part decision comes from both field reports and from lab reports while the latter "the firearm"... well, I have seen lab reports giving certain handguns glowing reports only to find them to be insufficiently reliable for me to put my life on the line with - so I prefer real-life experience over lab reports as to accuracy and reliability when choosing a sidearm or CCW. And my experience? Bluntly and honestly? The Glocks are totally reliable with minimal moving parts. My Sigs are totally reliable (I cannot speak for the newest of them as I shy away from them until they are proven in the field for a bit). My Kimbers are a mixed bag and despite reports of internal extractors being more reliable than external extractors I have personally found the opposite and have NEVER had a misfeed or failure of any kind whatsoever with any of my external extractor Kimbers. In fact, I have TWO TLEII/RLII's - one is external and the other internal and guess what? The external NEVER fails me. I just find them too big and heavy to carry regularly as CCW.... as with my other Kimbers. I add to my Glock and Sig favs my Springfield XD45, my Walther P99 .40, my Bull M5 UltraX Compact, my Ruger P345... too many to choose from. But one keeps coming back to the Glocks and I am going to buy a .40 compact in Glock as well to play with (can be easily converted to .357). I am thinking that it is a good compromise between my G26 9mm and my Glock 30 .45 ACP. It's off topic but wanted to throw it in because I think that the .40 and .357 are worthy of consideration, especially in the Glock and the Sig. Effective, fast, reliable, accurate, etc. And in a package that is similar in size to the G30 and convenient to CCW.

    The answer to the question "Best CCW 45 ACP?" again, is that there is no single best one, either in terms of load nor in terms of handgun. It is what is the current best engineered round for your circumstances and needs and the best and most reliable and most concealable handgun for your instantaneous circumstances (i.e. are you wearing a suit or a bathing suit?).

    If I could easily and safely store a 12ga short barrel shotgun either in the home or in my waistband that might be the way I would go but that is, of course, silliness. My .45 with light and (soon) laser is my personal choice for both (G21); I train with it and the use of it is reflexive. I know it intimately and can make it perform in CQB situations - I use it for IPSC/IDPA to get at least some sort of reflexive proficiency with moving targets while I am moving (no sense winning the gunfight if you are dead, right?). And if it is too big for my instantaneous circumstances, I carry my Glock 30, which is smaller, has the same characteristics, feel and controls, etc. So, concluding, my Glock 21 whenever I am able to manage it; otherwise my Glock 30.

    Unfortunately, the Sigs, Walthers, Kimbers, etc., tend to muddy the waters as I love them all and play with them as well. And my PARA's!! Well, that's a whole different story. I love my Para's to bits but do not carry them (yet).

    My intention in the next while is to offload most of the other handguns that I have and cull the herd down to one or two makes and a couple of models at most in those makes.

    We also have a Remington 870 tactical pump and like it. Impractical to carry of course. And we have a couple of AR's as well. Again impractical to carry. And as to home defense - I still defer to my Glocks as I feel most comfortable with them even though some may believe that a shotgun is the way to go.... I just find the shotgun too unwieldy, too vulnerable in a sweep and too indiscriminate in a home with more than just myself in it. Yet, there is much to be said for the sound of a 12 ga shell being racked to put the fear of God into a bad guy that's not hopped up on drugs or insane (both of which we seem to attract for some reason).

    If you have not had a close personal experience of the first kind (a gun in your nose) you just don't have the same degree of interest in making these choices. Trust me on that one.

  10. #79
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    texas AND virginia
    Posts
    66

    Colt's Government Model

    to all,

    as an OLD but NOT bold, retired, LEO, i would simply say that you have to spend a PILE of $$$$$$$$ to surpass a "plain vanilla" Series 70, Colt's Government Model, with a "cheap trigger job" & ambidexterous safety, in either .45ACP or .38 Colt's Super Auto caliber.
    (furthermore, at the last large gunshow that i attended in San Antonio, 500 - 600.oo would have bought you any number of perfectly suitable GMs in either caliber.)

    fwiw, for well over 3/4 of a CENTURY, the Colt's GM has been the OVERWHELMING choice of America's Finest LEOs - our TEXAS RANGERS!
    (MOST Rangers carry a PAIR of Colt's .45s)

    just my opinion.

    yours, TN46

    P.S.: having said all that, since i retired i'm now carrying 24/365 a Sig-Sauer P6 in 9mm parabellum, loaded with 9 +P JHP. - it just fits my hand like the proverbial glove, conceals easily & i shoot it well.

  11. #80
    I hate these type of threads.

    What works for one may not work for another. What's the"best" anything is left up to the old YMMV and someones limited BS about a sub standard product, or their only handgun. (insert the big fart emoticon)

    Like this:

    "I just picked up my first handgun, the XXXXX-XX best .45 I've ever shot, highly rec'd" (insert the bigger fart emoticon)

    I really don't give a hoot what some LEO department carries. They take their cues from Special Operations forces almost every time, out of the box.


    Like this:

    (Yeah, Delta Force carries 1911's so if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for our department" ..........................YOUR NO DELTA OPERATOR EITHER !!!
    "When a government robs Peter to pay Paul it will alway's have the support of Paul" George Bernard Shaw

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