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Thread: Citizen's Arrest

  1. #61
    Join Date
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    I carry to protect myself, and others who may be traveling with me. That's it. My primary firearm is a short-range revolver with limited ammo. I don't carry a BUG. If I am expecting trouble, I just don't go. I live in a decaying neighborhood, so I am always aware of my surroundings. I don't want any trouble. I practice shooting frequently. I carry to protect myself. That's it.

    If the need arises to "load up for bear" I will do so. Until then, I wish to maintain a very low profile.

    Because of my former career's, present, past interests, & training, I have the ability, knowledge and equipment to become a second, or third responder. If the SHITF in my community, I can be pressed into action. If asked, I am there.

    Remember these words?
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    I am one of "the people".

    In the meantime, I will let the first responders do the responding. I will let the police do the policing.

    If I am at the mall and some wacko starts shooting, I am getting myself, and family out of harms way first. If you wish to be a hero, I say have at it.

    "Only fools rush in" --Elvis Presley.

  2.   
  3. Thumbs down

    I just completed my CCW class in Idaho where the instructor specifically cautioned against citizens arrests. CCW is for defensive purposes. We are not LEOs. He further cautioned that if the charges are later dropped, you as the arresting agent will be responsible for all court costs as well as open to civil lawsuits and possible false arrest charges. Our instructor who is a LEO himself stated just don't do it unless no other choice.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska444 View Post
    I just completed my CCW class in Idaho where the instructor specifically cautioned against citizens arrests. CCW is for defensive purposes. We are not LEOs. He further cautioned that if the charges are later dropped, you as the arresting agent will be responsible for all court costs as well as open to civil lawsuits and possible false arrest charges. Our instructor who is a LEO himself stated just don't do it unless no other choice.
    A word for word +1

  5. Quote Originally Posted by theicemanmpls View Post
    I carry to protect myself, and others who may be traveling with me. That's it. My primary firearm is a short-range revolver with limited ammo. I don't carry a BUG. If I am expecting trouble, I just don't go. I live in a decaying neighborhood, so I am always aware of my surroundings. I don't want any trouble. I practice shooting frequently. I carry to protect myself. That's it.

    If the need arises to "load up for bear" I will do so. Until then, I wish to maintain a very low profile.

    Because of my former career's, present, past interests, & training, I have the ability, knowledge and equipment to become a second, or third responder. If the SHITF in my community, I can be pressed into action. If asked, I am there.

    Remember these words?
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    I am one of "the people".

    In the meantime, I will let the first responders do the responding. I will let the police do the policing.

    If I am at the mall and some wacko starts shooting, I am getting myself, and family out of harms way first. If you wish to be a hero, I say have at it.

    "Only fools rush in" --Elvis Presley.
    I definitely respect that decision, but unsure who you are referring to when regarding a first responder. If it's a security team member, or an LEO, then I would do exactly the same as you. I'm curious what you would do in a situation in which there is no first responder, except possibly yourself. Would you call the cops, and wait for them to arrive? Part of the reason we've all decided to carry, is police response times, on average, can range from 10-45min. If things are violent from the start, or about to get violent, the whole situation could be over in less than a minute.

    I'm not trying to be a hero, nor want to be one. I don't secretly hope to myself that something goes down, so I can stop it. As I've said before, I just can't abide watching somebody else suffer, while I have a means to defend them.

  6. Defense of life is a different issue in many ways than citizens arrest. An interesting scenario was posited to us in my recent CCW class. What would you do if you were in a convenience store, in the bathroom and you come out to see the clerk held under gun point. What would you do? One of the issues brought up was unless you shoot a man in his mid brain center and cause instant cessation of life, a gun pointed at another person will likely go off by involuntary muscle contractions if you shoot the suspect. That could actually get the clerk killed or wounded and lead to a lawsuit against you by the clerk. One answer to what would you do was to go back in the bathroom and lock the door. The second response was to go to a defensive position in the back of the store and call 911 and secure your perimeter until LEOs arrive.

    CCW's are not LEO's not do we have the same duties. If shots are already fired and you can intervene and in a sense help to preserve your own life and those around you, then you certainly have the right to do that, but to take it to the level of having an obligation to do that is in many ways above the CCW purpose and should be done with the consideration of the gravest consequences both civil and legal. My take home message from my two CCW classes that I have taken to date is that it is really for personal protection. Going beyond that is fraught with difficulties that are not at all well defined and are subject to the interpretation of those that will have weeks, months and years to critique what you did in a few seconds.

    In reality, in a situation where shots have been fired and I was in a position to intervene even though my own life was not in danger at that time, I probably would but I would absolutely understand the quagmire I had just entered. This sort of scenario is much less defined for a CCW than say a Castle home defense scenario.

  7. I am with theicemanmpls & Alaska444 I did not get my CCW to be a cop. I spent 14 years serving my country and was ready to stand in the gap. But now I too carry light and for the purpose of protecting my self, my family, and my friends. I have had folks show up on my door step in trouble. I called the cops for them but had them wait out side. In today's world with every one looking to sue anyone over any thing I will not risk my life or livelihood or my family's well being for complete strangers. If we are in public and it hits the fan I would take cover and deal with the trouble that comes to find me. As to the argument of what if it was your loved one that needed help. We all carry and take personal responsibility for our safety not the cops or other citizens.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aresye View Post
    I definitely respect that decision, but unsure who you are referring to when regarding a first responder. If it's a security team member, or an LEO, then I would do exactly the same as you. I'm curious what you would do in a situation in which there is no first responder, except possibly yourself. Would you call the cops, and wait for them to arrive? Part of the reason we've all decided to carry, is police response times, on average, can range from 10-45min. If things are violent from the start, or about to get violent, the whole situation could be over in less than a minute.

    I'm not trying to be a hero, nor want to be one. I don't secretly hope to myself that something goes down, so I can stop it. As I've said before, I just can't abide watching somebody else suffer, while I have a means to defend them.
    In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection
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  9. I'll definitely check that out once I get paid in a couple days.

    I'm not trying to suggest that anybody should make a rash decision in a very complex situation. A situation in which shots have not been fired could become an extremely costly, and messy legal battle should one choose to interfere. I was more of going along with a shots fired scenario, when it's relatively clear this person means to do harm. Any other situation requires a very quick, but thorough analysis. That's why these kinds of topics and debates are good, because it can show somebody (like me), the big downside to carrying restrains of any kind, and the fact that the small advantage they might bring, is outweighed by a very large disadvantage, and thus, I have learned from it. Right now I'm not talking about trying to arrest anybody. Just want to see what other people's opinions are regarding where they stand on the defense of others. Obviously state laws differ, and thus a person may have a completely opposite viewpoint than mine, but generally across this board, members can be placed in a certain spectrum as to what level they will lend assistance. I'm sure there are those who are on the polar extremes of that spectrum, ranging from somebody who would walk away from a massacre they easily could stop, to a person driving his car into the bad parts of town at night, looking for trouble to stop.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by mudpuppy View Post
    I am with theicemanmpls & Alaska444 I did not get my CCW to be a cop. I spent 14 years serving my country and was ready to stand in the gap. But now I too carry light and for the purpose of protecting my self, my family, and my friends. I have had folks show up on my door step in trouble. I called the cops for them but had them wait out side. In today's world with every one looking to sue anyone over any thing I will not risk my life or livelihood or my family's well being for complete strangers. If we are in public and it hits the fan I would take cover and deal with the trouble that comes to find me. As to the argument of what if it was your loved one that needed help. We all carry and take personal responsibility for our safety not the cops or other citizens.
    I am in this camp. Well put.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aresye View Post
    I'll definitely check that out once I get paid in a couple days.

    I'm not trying to suggest that anybody should make a rash decision in a very complex situation. A situation in which shots have not been fired could become an extremely costly, and messy legal battle should one choose to interfere. I was more of going along with a shots fired scenario, when it's relatively clear this person means to do harm. Any other situation requires a very quick, but thorough analysis. That's why these kinds of topics and debates are good, because it can show somebody (like me), the big downside to carrying restrains of any kind, and the fact that the small advantage they might bring, is outweighed by a very large disadvantage, and thus, I have learned from it. Right now I'm not talking about trying to arrest anybody. Just want to see what other people's opinions are regarding where they stand on the defense of others. Obviously state laws differ, and thus a person may have a completely opposite viewpoint than mine, but generally across this board, members can be placed in a certain spectrum as to what level they will lend assistance. I'm sure there are those who are on the polar extremes of that spectrum, ranging from somebody who would walk away from a massacre they easily could stop, to a person driving his car into the bad parts of town at night, looking for trouble to stop.
    This is really getting silly.

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