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Thread: Citizen's Arrest

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    In Colorado it's an 8 hour class for security guards. I wouldn't carry handcuffs unless I was specifically required to do so by my job and if I were, I would never use them.
    Agreed but most states treat security officers as ordinary citizens. Again, why open yourself up to added liability with this litigious society?

    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Of course had you simply asserted your rights and declined the voluntary questioning we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Just sayin'
    Or it could turn into a stop and identify, which would will eventually turn into an investigative stop. Just saying. Now let the flaming begin...

  2.   
  3. #82
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    Amazing, this thread is almost 2 years old, and it covers a lot of topics that are still being discussed recently.

    Did anyone else see CaptAmerica post about him drawing on someone threatening him? He did not receive any flak for making that statement, but forum members have changed in the last 2 years, and so has the viewpoints.

    I believe the OP, if he is still around, understands the problem with premature drawing of a weapon in this made up scenario. There are too many different possibilities, and I agree with BC1. Call 911, tell the party they have been noticed and that 911 has been called. If intervention happens, both parties need to be separated from each other. Having females with the female and males with the male is a good idea that was brought up earlier (we do that in domestic violence cases after the police have arrived and all ready separated the parties, and medical attention is needed).

    My question is, at what point would you step in? Him grabbing her arm and her saying "that hurts," is that enough for some of you to step in and separate the two? Do you have to wait till one or both start hitting each other? Till blood is drawn? Till a weapon is present? Nothing would suffice assistance from you? I don't see a problem with choosing to be a good witness, or choosing to intervene, as long as you are ok with the consequences.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Aresye View Post
    Here's the scenario:

    You're at a friend's house, celebrating his birthday. You're currently carrying, and therefore only drinking water and soda. Nobody else knows you're carrying, and when asked why you're not drinking, you respond with the fact that you are the driver.

    Fast forward a couple hours. Party's dying down, so you and your friend decide to leave and head back home. As you're both leaving the house, you hear a domestic disturbance next door that's pretty heated. A woman storms out of the house in a hurried fashion, followed by the husband. He grabs her arm, while yelling at her to get back in the house. She tries to free her arm, but can't. The man wrenches her arm in a painful way, attempting to drag her back into the house.

    Seeing both of you next door, watching the event, the woman screams for help. You tell your buddy to call 911, as you draw your concealed firearm. You tell the man very sternly to let her go, and to back away. The man complies, but now what?

    I'm not advocating that CCW holders should have powers to arrest, but what would you do in the above situation after the man backs away? For this reason, I think carrying a simple pair of zip tie cuffs could do a lot of help. You could order the man to the ground, and have your friend secure his hands. There's a lot of what ifs, but the main thing I think is important is putting your gun away, so it's not out when the police arrive. You could then have the man sit while you and your friend keep eye on him.

    What kind of legalities would there be regarding this situation? I think zip tie cuffs are great. They're small, can be purchased or made easily, and are ideal for securing a person temporarily. We use them in the military all the time.

    Then of course come the what ifs, like:
    -What if you're alone?
    -What if the person tries to escape?
    -What will the police think when they get there?

    Looking for some people's opinions and/or advice, if they've been in a similar situation.
    I'd have just called the police and not do a draw down.

  5. #84
    That's a job for a cop. Domestic violence is no joke. While you draw down on him his wife might stab you in the neck. Don't be a fustrated cop.

  6. Drawing your firearm could lead to serious repercussions on your part, not the right choice. i would approach the situation with an open mind, while doing whatever i could to prevent any harm to either party, and keep them both present until the police arrive. you dont know if the woman assaulted the man first or what just know the scenario presented is much deeper than it seems....DO NOT DRAW UNLESS YOU FEEL THERE IS AN IMMEDIATE THREAT TO LOSS OF LIFE. THEN BE PREPARED TO DEAL WITH EMOTIONAL, AND JUDICIAL REPURCUSSIONS.

  7. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    Or it could turn into a stop and identify, which would will eventually turn into an investigative stop. Just saying. Now let the flaming begin...
    Officer am I free to leave?

    It's only gonna go one of two ways

    Yes you are.

    Good bye

    No you are not.

    I have nothing further to say. I do not consent to any searches. I'd like to speak to an attorney.
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Aresye View Post
    *Thinking of the right words to say, to avoid another trip through the inferno.*

    Kelcarry, I agree with you 100%, but just like most groups, including the police and military, concealed carriers have a very broad range in their sense of duty. For some, their duty is solely for the protection of themselves, and their family. On the other end of the spectrum, you have some very hard core vigilantes. Most are somewhere in the middle, and I personally don't think it's very good to be on either side of the extremes. Now I know I've definitely made it seem like I'm more of a vigilante with my OP, but I've learned from the responses, even though some I may disagree with. I don't go looking for trouble, and I don't go trekking into places I wouldn't normally without a weapon. I simply want to be as prepared as possible, for a variety of scenarios. Unfortunately, the legal system, and anti-gun supporters, love to find ways to screw over our fellow citizens, and thus we have our different beliefs in carry protocol.

    As I've said in other posts, I am a firm believer in the sheepdog concept. I've had the sheepdog mentality ever since I was a kid. After Columbine, I'd often rehearse in my head what I would do if an active shooter came into the school, and how I could save as many lives as possible. I don't want to be a hero, and I certainly don't want praise. I just cannot abide watching my fellow man suffer while I have an ability to help. After high school, I enlisted, once again because of that same mentality.

    Now that I have a concealed permit, I feel it is my own sense of duty to protect those who cannot protect themselves. If I'm at a mall, and someone starts shooting, I wouldn't be able to run out, and then stand there, knowing people are being slaughtered on the inside. Then again if I interfered, there's the possibility that I could shoot the wrong guy, hit a bystander, or get mistaken for the bad guy, and shot by another carrier. That's why keeping all aspects of your life and training rounded out is of most importance. So if that horrible day comes down to you, you're able to assess the situation, decide on a course of action, and execute that plan with precision. We're all professionals in the end, with an extremely high amount of responsibility.

    So, in the end (hopefully sparing you all from another autobiography), I think people should be focused on making up scenarios. Who cares if you get flamed, or your actions disagreed with? If you can't take some heavy criticism, or are afraid of speaking out because of the possibilities of looking like an idiot, you shouldn't be carrying a gun.
    Very well said sir. Also I have to give you props for surviving that flame fest intact. I understand where you are coming from though. Yes your original post should have been rolled around in your head a bit more before being posted but I'm of the same mind in one way. I could not stand by and watch people get injured or killed and know that I might have the ability to do something about it. I'm Ex military as well by the way.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
    Domestic violence incidents are horrible situations to deal with as a private citizens with concealed carry or as a police officer. You always run the risk of being attacked by the intended victim and assailant. Trying to handcuff the suspect by yourself as a private citizen is riddled with several safety and legal implications that I would never do it off duty.

    If you are going to handcuff someone while you have a firearm, I believe you need several hundred hours of training in how to handcuff properly, and several hundred more hours on how to defend yourself taking your gun from you while handcuffing. Can you confidently say that you are physically fit, have enough training, and have additional tools (baton, OC, Taser) at your disposal to defend yourself from someone attacking you while handcuffing them?

    Getting caught with handcuffs or zip-ties may be interpreted as suspicious by law enforcement. It may seem far fetched but here is one example why I wouldn't do it. Someone sees you talking to a woman, who you just met, in the park and your gun is slightly exposed from the back and there have been possible rapes in the area. Police are called and conduct a voluntary questioning of you. You then admit to having a firearm on you, and submit to a voluntary search. The zip ties or handcuffs are discovered incident to the search. The woman is upset to find this out, since she just met you, and said you were, "acting nervous." You are then arrested for suspicion of rape due to the park having past rapes. You are held, your mouth swabbed for DNA, and you're released after the sample doesn't match the rape kit - if it were that easy. Now you just have the charge of rape on your record, that's if you're not held for several months during that time and loose your job while racking up a huge legal bill.

    When you handcuff someone you also run into the legal implications if your handcuffs are too tight, hurting their arms or shoulders, you refuse to protect the suspect while they're in your care, and among other legalities.

    Adding an extra step to the process beyond having the suspect at gun point will only increase the chances of charges or a lawsuit filed against you. Most likely you're not protected to the same degree as law enforcement officers from tort claims, so my advice is why risk it?

    Your District Attorney, which is most likely an elected position, may feel an obligation to press charges against you due to outrage by the community, maybe their spouse. Maybe some opportunist lawyer may approach the suspect to get a piece of the dollars from and convince them they have a case? Well guess what, you're most likely not legally covered.

    If the person runs off, I say let them with all the safety, criminal and civil implications resulting from a chase in today's world.
    Very well said. Thank you for the post.

  10. #89
    klassic Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Aresye View Post
    Here's the scenario:

    You're at a friend's house, celebrating his birthday. You're currently carrying, and therefore only drinking water and soda. Nobody else knows you're carrying, and when asked why you're not drinking, you respond with the fact that you are the driver.

    Fast forward a couple hours. Party's dying down, so you and your friend decide to leave and head back home. As you're both leaving the house, you hear a domestic disturbance next door that's pretty heated. A woman storms out of the house in a hurried fashion, followed by the husband. He grabs her arm, while yelling at her to get back in the house. She tries to free her arm, but can't. The man wrenches her arm in a painful way, attempting to drag her back into the house.

    Seeing both of you next door, watching the event, the woman screams for help. You tell your buddy to call 911, as you draw your concealed firearm. You tell the man very sternly to let her go, and to back away. The man complies, but now what?

    I'm not advocating that CCW holders should have powers to arrest, but what would you do in the above situation after the man backs away? For this reason, I think carrying a simple pair of zip tie cuffs could do a lot of help. You could order the man to the ground, and have your friend secure his hands. There's a lot of what ifs, but the main thing I think is important is putting your gun away, so it's not out when the police arrive. You could then have the man sit while you and your friend keep eye on him.

    What kind of legalities would there be regarding this situation? I think zip tie cuffs are great. They're small, can be purchased or made easily, and are ideal for securing a person temporarily. We use them in the military all the time.

    Then of course come the what ifs, like:
    -What if you're alone?
    -What if the person tries to escape?
    -What will the police think when they get there?

    Looking for some people's opinions and/or advice, if they've been in a similar situation.
    you would be dead wrong, he poses no threat to you and thats his WIFE, HIS WIFE NOT YOURS and you don't know what they could have been arguing about. if you've ever been in a relationship long enough you know leaving a spoon on the kitchen table and can get you cussed out...

    call 911 fine but interviening and drawing your weapon would be over reacting in my book... classic case or heroism going terribly wrong!

    and women know how to play men, she say you to bean heads standing their so she took advantage of the situation and you/they bit the bait!!!

    think before you react because over reacting can be costly!

  11. I've intervened in two differant domestic disputes when I worked as a bouncer. Both times the women turned on me. That is why police consider them so dangerous.

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