is .380 enough gun? - Page 22
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Thread: is .380 enough gun?

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    Oh lord, save us the headache and don't go there.
    Too late. I already did.


    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    Some of you big caliber guys are just fine with other people carrying a .32, like opinion matters more than training...with all the modern ammo available .380 will perform adequately in a gunfight just the same as .22lr, .25, .32acp, .357, .38sp, 9mm luger, .40, .44, .45acp, and yes, .460 and .50 action express too...did I forget any?lol as long as youre making hits in vital areas, as with all calibers. A hole in the lung is more effective than a scrape across the arm. The rules of gunfighting are this: 3, 3, 3. 3 feet, 3 shots, 3 seconds. If your assailant is behind cover, you've got a few advantages. He's got to leave it to chase you, he also has a blind spot While you're getting off the X, why not get to cover of your own? Why not find an avenue of escape?
    Who said that an assailant has to leave cover to do you harm? If he's got a gun, he doesn't need to leave cover to fire it at you.

    And what is with this, "He's got to leave it to chase you..." crap?

    What kind of fool would leave cover to chase someone who is holed up and defending themselves with a firearm? Are you anticipating bayonet charges where you live?


    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    If .22lr can penetrate 12 pieces of plywood, I don't see your point. .45 won't penetrate a concrete wall at walmart, so would it really matter what you've got if he's hiding?!
    So now you are advocating that we carry a .22LR for SD/CCW?

    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    Moving targets are hard to hit, bug out!
    Thank you, Captain Obvious!
    Highly recommended reading:
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    QUANTITATIVE AMMUNITION SELECTION

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  3. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by schadenfreude View Post
    Too late. I already did.
    Congratulations.



    Who said that an assailant has to leave cover to do you harm? If he's got a gun, he doesn't need to leave cover to fire it at you.
    He does if you're aware of your surroundings and get off the X in situations where people are shooting at you. Why was he ambushing? There's no reason for an average citizen to be ambushed, except for if he is an..........ASSASSIN!

    And what is with this, "He's got to leave it to chase you..." crap?

    You said target behind cover, so I'm assuming that assassins are after you. Don't you run? Or do you stand there like life is a John Wayne movie?

    What kind of fool would leave cover to chase someone who is holed up and defending themselves with a firearm? Are you anticipating bayonet charges where you live?

    Again, you said he was a target behind cover. This is an ambush scenario, they're out to get you. Don't assassins have knives too?




    So now you are advocating that we carry a .22LR for SD/CCW?

    That's not at all what I was doing, but since you brought it up, WHY NOT? There's plenty of readily available information proving the adequate performance of .22lr, NOTHING to prove otherwise. You want proof? .22lr has been proven to perform adequately, if somebody is comfortable in their ability to hit the target repeatedly in vital areas with CCI Stingers from a 2.4" barrel (1.6 expansion factor, 8 inches of penetration vs. 10% ordnance gel... Source: Handgun Stopping Power, American Rifleman September 2012) and does so, who are you or I to say they shouldn't carry said weapon?! You can carry however you like, and everybody else can carry the way they like. Your opinion is not, and should not be offered in place of fact, if that's where you were going with that comment.


    Thank you, Captain Obvious!
    You're very welcome, Deputy Fife.
    Last edited by tricolordad; 11-02-2012 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Typos and such

  4. #213
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    Argue all you want, I'll let the cold hard facts speak for themselves. Guten nacht, fraulein...

    You can take a look down on the .380 section, all tested loads perform to a level that will definitely stop and/or kill provided you make consistent hits to vital areas. Unless the dude is like 500 pounds, at that point, just walk away...he can't getcha anyways.l

  5. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
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    Argue all you want, I'll let the cold hard facts speak for themselves. Guten nacht, fraulein...

    You can take a look down on the .380 section, all tested loads perform to a level that will definitely stop and/or kill provided you make consistent hits to vital areas. Unless the dude is like 500 pounds, at that point, just walk away...he can't getcha anyways.l
    Where can one find Richard Mann's credentials regarding terminal ballistics and the calibration data of his tests? Further what guideline are you using to make the claim that "all tested loads perform to a level that will definitely stop and/or kill".

    "It's easier to avoid conflict than it is to survive it" - SGB

  6. #215

    is .380 enough gun?

    I was scepticle at first about the .380 ACP, however, once I acquired my Sig P238 and loaded it with Speer JHP Gold Dots, I was pleased......

    It is now my EDC Pocket Cannon, and has not had one single issue after passing 500+ rounds thru it.

    Only wish the ammunition was more plentiful :)


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  7. #216
    One of the problems is that this round does not penetrate deep enough. Buffalo Bore makes a hard cast a 100 gr flat point that may get deep enough. Winchester makes a FMJ Flat nose.
    If you are going to carry a .380 you need to practice getting 5 rounds off in a 2 seconds or less. Do not work on single shots unless you need to work on marksmanship. Do not work on double taps.
    And for those that thinks it penetrates deep enough, the bad guy is not going to be standing up straight with his arms at his side. You will be lucky if the round gets to vitals.
    “An armed society is a polite society.”

  8. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGB View Post
    Where can one find Richard Mann's credentials regarding terminal ballistics and the calibration data of his tests? Further what guideline are you using to make the claim that "all tested loads perform to a level that will definitely stop and/or kill".
    Look at the data. Assuming a giant 600 pound man boobed blubber covered fatbody is shot with hornady 90 gr. critical defense which expands somewhat poorly and penetrates only 9.3 inches, the least of the tested .380 loads, thats still 9" of penetration, hole in the lung, intestines, stomach, heart and so on. SGB, are you telling me collapsed lungs, punctured leaking stomach SEPTICEMIA or a bullet in the heart, leaking liver won't stop or kill him? To out it another way... 9 inches goes STRAIGHT THROUGH ME,( I'm 6'3" and around 240 lbs)blood leaking outta both the entrance and the exit wounds and inside the channel. Don't need Richard Mann to tell me anything as I am capable of processing and understanding the information.

  9. #218
    It sure looks like someone is only looking at ballistic gel testing. That is a good start, I bet bone was not factered in.
    “An armed society is a polite society.”

  10. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    Look at the data. Assuming a giant 600 pound man boobed blubber covered fatbody is shot with hornady 90 gr. critical defense which expands somewhat poorly and penetrates only 9.3 inches, the least of the tested .380 loads, thats still 9" of penetration, hole in the lung, intestines, stomach, heart and so on. SGB, are you telling me collapsed lungs, punctured leaking stomach SEPTICEMIA or a bullet in the heart, leaking liver won't stop or kill him? To out it another way... 9 inches goes STRAIGHT THROUGH ME,( I'm 6'3" and around 240 lbs)blood leaking outta both the entrance and the exit wounds and inside the channel. Don't need Richard Mann to tell me anything as I am capable of processing and understanding the information.
    Then please equate for me based on your expertise in terminal ballistics (with supporting documentation) the correlation between ballistic gel (at what calibration) to human flesh and bone and how you've come to the conclusion that 9" of penetration in ballistic gel reliably equates to 9" of penetration in human flesh, cartilage and bone. Further what's the penetration required to laterally traverse the forearm of the average American adult Male prior to arriving at the chest?

    "It's easier to avoid conflict than it is to survive it" - SGB

  11. #220
    Lethality is one thing, the probability of a stop is another,. I can stop you cold with a ball bat applied vigorously across your guts, but in a day or 2, you will be fine,. I can cause your death with a hatpin to your heart, but it might take you an hour to die. Shoot some animals with both the 380 and the 357 sometime, and see if you still "think" that the 380 is adequate. It performs about like a Stinger hp from a .22 rifle, and so does .45 ball ammo. :-) If you have a locked breech 380, like the Keltec, and know how, it can produce about double the "power" that it gets with factory ammo, in most cases.

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