is .380 enough gun? - Page 23
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Thread: is .380 enough gun?

  1. i carry a s&w bg 380 i love it light easy to conceal and very dependable would recommend this to anybody i wouldnt want to be shot by a gun of any caliber.

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  3. #222
    Physiologically, no caliber or bullet is certain to incapacitate any individual unless the brain is hit. Psychologically, some individuals can be incapacitated by minor or small caliber wounds. Those individuals who are stimulated by fear, adrenaline, drugs, alcohol, and/or sheer will and survival determination may not be incapacitated even if mortally wounded.
    The will to survive and to fight despite horrific damage to the body is commonplace on the battlefield, and on the street. Barring a hit to the brain, the only way to force incapacitation is to cause sufficient blood loss that the subject can no longer function, and that takes time. Even if the heart is instantly destroyed, there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support full and complete voluntary action for 10-15 seconds.
    Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet.
    “An armed society is a polite society.”

  4. #223
    Usually, a bullet penetration depth of 12-20 inches (approximately 30-50 cm) is required to reliably reach and disrupt vital structures in humans. This depth is needed, because many bullets travel on an oblique course through the body, lengthening
    the wound path to the center of the body. Also, bullets often pass through other body parts, such as extremities, held up in front of the trunk for defense or offense. Possibly, the bullet must still be able to penetrate to the body center and once there, have
    enough wounding potential left to disrupt the vital structures.
    “An armed society is a polite society.”

  5. #224
    actually, it's not, on the street, anyway, plenty of sources prove that 90+% of the time, you dont have to hit them with ANY bullet, to make them flee, and 80% of the time, you don't have to fire at all. it's quite rare, really, less than 1 time in 20 attacks, that you have to shoot him into the ground with repeated, powerful hits to the chest, or blow off his head.

    bs on the 12" being "required", I can kill you very dead with bullets that "only" penetrate 4" into your chest. :-)

  6. Another factor that I didn't see commented upon is that folks who live in colder climates often wear heavy clothing in the winter that reduces the effectiveness of many otherwise excellent rounds. JHPs can apparently be prevented from expanding by a winter coat and/or heavy Carrhart work-clothing. My local gun dealer encouraged me to load .38 Special +P Hornady Critical Defense rounds for self-protection, especially during Michigan winters. (These are manufactured with a plastic insert inside the hollow-point to make them properly expand if fired through heavy clothing). Seems plausible to me, so I took the advice.

  7. Ballistics count as well as round size

    Another factor that I didn't see commented upon is that BGs who live in colder climates often wear heavy clothing in the winter that reduces the effectiveness of otherwise excellent rounds. JHPs can apparently be prevented from expanding by a winter coat and/or heavy Carrhart work-clothing. My local gun dealer encouraged me to load .38 Special +P Hornady Critical Defense rounds for self-protection, especially during Michigan winters. (These are manufactured with a plastic insert inside the hollow-point to make them properly expand if fired through heavy clothing). Seems plausible to me, so I took the advice.

  8. Special self-defense rounds are expensive, of course. FMJ rounds are generally speaking cheaper and cause less fouling of your gun barrel, so I use these for practice at the shooting range.

  9. #228
    jhp's cause no more fouling than fmj ammo, and non expanding hp's penetrate more DEEPLY than ones tht do expand. nothing expands with any reliability in flesh, in a factory 380 load, or .38 special, for that matter. The ammo makers wussy load the 38, so badly here in the US, its a joke. in France, 38 loads outperform most 357 loads here. the THV Arcane .38 was 45 grs at 2400 fps, 4" barrel.

  10. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by RLM1911 View Post
    I was scepticle at first about the .380 ACP, however, once I acquired my Sig P238 and loaded it with Speer JHP Gold Dots, I was pleased......

    It is now my EDC Pocket Cannon, and has not had one single issue after passing 500+ rounds thru it.

    Only wish the ammunition was more plentiful :)


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    I love my P238, but I'm thinking about moving up to the P938, both for increased stopping power and availability/cost.
    Lewis - NRA Life - Oregon Firearms Federation - National Assoc. for Gun Rights

    Gun control is NOT about guns, it's about CONTROL.

  11. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGB View Post
    Then please equate for me based on your expertise in terminal ballistics (with supporting documentation) the correlation between ballistic gel (at what calibration) to human flesh and bone and how you've come to the conclusion that 9" of penetration in ballistic gel reliably equates to 9" of penetration in human flesh, cartilage and bone. Further what's the penetration required to laterally traverse the forearm of the average American adult Male prior to arriving at the chest?
    When you start screaming for sources from others, you had better be prepared to present some in favor of your own argument. As for me, I posted one of my sources. When you shoot, where do you aim? I shoot for the gut, I mean to stop the threat by causing intense pain. Also, no bones there, just a hip bone to break or richochet off of. As for my credentials, I am awaiting evidence supporting your opinion. Shall I post copies of my discharge papers? Lol. Nah, they'll say I provoked you and vilify me on TV. Go back to defensivecarry and spout your "only a .45" BS there.

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