Fricker's shooting should not have happened...
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Thread: Fricker's shooting should not have happened...

  1. Fricker's shooting should not have happened...

    This is a C/P from the Dayton Daily News:

    BUTLER TWP., Montgomery County — A woman’s BlackBerry cell phone saved her from serious harm after her boyfriend’s concealed handgun discharged inside a restaurant.
    The incident occurred about 11 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 6, in Fricker’s on Miller Lane, said Butler Twp. police Capt. Carl Bush.
    The gun owner, Anthony J. Holtvogt, 24, of Kettering holds a concealed carry permit for the firearm.
    He faces one charge of possession of a firearm in a liquor permit premises. The third-degree felony is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.
    Bush said Holtvogt, his girlfriend, 22, and other friends were enjoying beers at Fricker’s, 6834 Miller Lane. The girlfriend lives in Butler Twp.
    When they prepared to leave, Holtvogt told police, he picked up his coat and began putting it on. The firearm was in the coat pocket.
    The sleeve got caught in the coat, and as Holtvogt reached down, he noticed the slide on the .32-caliber handgun was pulled back. The gun then discharged.
    The slug put a hole through his coat and his girlfriend’s jeans, but struck the BlackBerry in her left pants pocket dead center, Bush said. The bullet caused only bruising, and the woman declined medical treatment, Bush said.
    “The BlackBerry saved her absolutely,” Bush said. “It could have been pretty serious.”
    If Holtvogt is convicted, he faces a mandatory revocation of his concealed carry permit, Bush said.
    The Montgomery County Sheriff’s Office, which issues the permits, has been notified, Bush said.


    One step forward ,TWO giant leaps backwards. That's how I feel when people like this do not obey the laws that we are trying so hard to change. I'm referring to House Bill 203, and our ability to carry concealed in restaurants.
    Many fine people have testified before legislators to change this law with very good arguments, such as, Concealed Carry people are well trained to handle a firearm, we go through at least 12 hours of training to safely handle our sidearms in a safe manner, we know and OBEY the laws, we are fingerprinted and background checks are made.
    Allegedly, at least TWO of those laws we broken by the following individual, who had a CCL. UGH!!
    When I see the dreaded signs “NO GUNS ALLOWED” on an establishment's windows or doors and I try to explain to them that criminals ignore these and you are disarming responsible citizens ; all they have to say is “What about Fricker's”?
    Seriously, I am at a lost, how do you respond?
    Not to mention he damn near killed his girlfriend!
    I know one bad apple.....but does this guy have any idea what he has done? Or more wisely stated 'Undone”?
    Bersa Thunder 380cc
    Smith & Wesson 9
    Stoger Arms Luger 22cal. LR

  2.   
  3. #2
    This pisses me off to no end...Not that he was carrying where he shouldn't have been but that he was STUPID. He's drinking, for one thing, which is STUPID. Then, he's not taking care of his piece: it's floating in his coat pocket and he's taken off his coat, which is STUPID. Then, as he's putting on his coat, notices the slide is racked and "somehow" the gun goes off...STUPID.

    This guy's a poster child for the antis...and sets the Cause back...just because he was STUPID.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Heart of Dixie
    Posts
    1,225
    This reinforces my belief that not everyone is meant to be a gun owner. Quick tempered, irresponsible and STUPID people have no business carrying. I agree, this incident makes the entire CCW community look bad!

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,558
    Don't carry if you are drinking! Don't drink if you are carrying!
    The beers could not have helped in this case at all no matter how it happened.
    Hope all our black eyes heal quickly!

  6. #5
    What's left to be said... The whole choir is shaking their heads...
    Semper Fi

  7. #6
    Alcohol + CCW do not mix. This guy is guilty of 1st class felony stupidity. Thanks for setting-back the CCW movement by about 12 months.

    Ugh.

    - Savage

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    699
    Guess he's too cheap to spring for a holster.

    What a moron.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JimVette1 View Post
    This is a C/P from the Dayton Daily News:
    One step forward ,TWO giant leaps backwards. That's how I feel when people like this do not obey the laws that we are trying so hard to change. I'm referring to House Bill 203, and our ability to carry concealed in restaurants.
    Many fine people have testified before legislators to change this law with very good arguments, such as, Concealed Carry people are well trained to handle a firearm, we go through at least 12 hours of training to safely handle our sidearms in a safe manner, we know and OBEY the laws, we are fingerprinted and background checks are made.
    Allegedly, at least TWO of those laws we broken by the following individual, who had a CCL. UGH!!
    When I see the dreaded signs “NO GUNS ALLOWED” on an establishment's windows or doors and I try to explain to them that criminals ignore these and you are disarming responsible citizens ; all they have to say is “What about Fricker's”?
    Seriously, I am at a lost, how do you respond?
    Not to mention he damn near killed his girlfriend!
    I know one bad apple.....but does this guy have any idea what he has done? Or more wisely stated 'Undone”?
    Do keep in mind, people are not infallible. The more people you have concealed carry, the more chance of people making mistakes (or doing something "stuipd"), doing things they should know better than doing, etc. How many times do we see stories of LOEs doing things that set back the reputation of their departments? It all goes back to human error. Whether it be someone doing something that they should know better than doing, or making a bad decision that eventually bites them in the blackberry...

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by brickler View Post
    Do keep in mind, people are not infallible. The more people you have concealed carry, the more chance of people making mistakes (or doing something "stuipd"), doing things they should know better than doing, etc. How many times do we see stories of LOEs doing things that set back the reputation of their departments? It all goes back to human error. Whether it be someone doing something that they should know better than doing, or making a bad decision that eventually bites them in the blackberry...
    I"m not so quick to accept this, brickler. I agree with your basic premise, number of people and all that. But this guy made one stupid decision after another. A "mistake" is one thing, but repeated stupidity is quite another.

  11. #10
    I remember my CHL instructor spent A LOT of time telling our class that if we're going to be drinking that we COULD NOT carry our firearms. Period. No room for discussion.

    This lady is lucky this bonehead only had a .32 on him or things could have been worse for her. I don't think that little blackberry would have been so effective against a larger round like a .45 or something, in my opinion.

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