Interesting case
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Thread: Interesting case

  1. #1

    Interesting case

    Old City Shooting

    I just read about this, and since I didn't see anything about it on this site, I figured I'd post it. It's an unusual case—the kind that will decided on a lot of little details and occurrences over split seconds. From what I've read in several accounts, my sympathies are with the shooter, though if he had indeed been drinking, he made a big mistake, regardless of whether he was ultimately justified in shooting. Apparently both the shooter and the four guys who accosted him had been drinking.

    I think the incident raises important questions in several different areas.

  3. #2
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Los Angeles, CA
    I don't know.....

    article said they start argument on the street and one guy against four pulled gun.
    I picture the other way, what if it was knife instead of Gun.
    (because many of us here include myself has sympathy with gun)

    It seems just 4 against 1 street fight and all drunk.
    One guy pulled knife then stab opponent during fight.
    Would he be justified ?
    (it seems old movie "West side story")

    I can't judge by video or news article but my own life, I always try not to make agreement or fight when I carry any weapon.
    (and I've never done)

    because I maybe use it in fight, if I carry weapon.
    I know I won't be justified and it makes myself worse after I use it.

  4. #3
    I haven't seen or read anything about this other than what is posted here but IMO, if the shooter had been drinking, he's in a bad way legally. Additionally, if the argument had been carried on for awhile, I think the shooter, as a legal carry, had the responsibility to defuse the situation, perhaps by leaving before things got to the point they did (at least that's what I would have done). This looks like: DRINKING + ESCALATION = NO GOOD OUTCOME.

    Again, there is probably more here than meets my eye, but that's my initial reaction.
    Prov. 27:3 - "Stone is heavy and sand a burden, but provocation by a fool is heavier than both"

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
    York, Pennsylvania
    Interesting is right. This could be any one of us. Consider visiting and reading through this thread on a local forum. It's a bit lengthy, but there is good information within, including information and comments from at least one attorney...

    Old City Shooting

    I just found this forum (USA Carry, that is) and I'm a little bewildered that this is only just now being discussed.

    I believe I'll be back here regularly now!

  6. #5
    I didn't see anything in the article or video about him drinking. However, I also didn't read all 76 pages of the PAFOA thread. Has it been verified that he was drinking?
    The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. - Thomas Jefferson

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Gray Court, SC
    The only thing i saw about drinking was from some of the posters. It will be interesting to follow once it goes to trial. They have a defense fund web site for him. The Gerald Ung Legal Defense Fund, Inc. — A Non-Profit Corporation Providing Financial Aid for Legal Defense
    USAF Retired, CATM, SC CWP, NH NR CWP, NRA Benefactor
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them... -- Richard Henry Lee, 1787

  8. #7
    My OP said, ". . . though if he had been drinking," so something in the accounts I read must have suggested that such was the case.

    Strange that a Google news search for "Gerald Ung" (the name of the shooter) brings up ZERO news articles, though the normal web search brings up plenty. I'll keep trying.

    JJFlash, I agree 100% that the man should have taken any opportunity to leave, de-escalate, and so on. Of course, maybe he did but thought the guys were following him. We don't know all that happened, and I suspect the courts are going to have to spend a million dollars of Pennsylvania taxpayers' money trying to reconstruct every last detail of this incident. It is suggested that just previous to the shooting, the "victim" was doing pullups on some temporary construction framing, and Mr. Ung made some comment. Even if I thought the guy was stupid and foolish to do so, I'd keep my mouth shut, especially when armed (which I definitely would be any time I was in Philadelphia).

    To those who ask what kind of person would charge at someone with a gun pointed at him, I would answer, "An alcohol-addled macho man who wants to show his friends how tough he is and who figures that the slightly-built guy pointing the gun won't really pull the trigger."

    The D.A. or prosecutor said something like, "What would have ended years ago in a fist fight ended with a young man paralyzed." (Implied, of course, is, "Oh, those nasty guns!")

    I would answer, "The fist fight of four against one might very well have ended with the 'one' paralyzed." I would add that "years ago" more people were shot on the streets of Philadelphia than today.

    No way in hell this is first-degree murder, and the prosecutor knows it. They just throw everything they can at you and hope you plea bargain.

    Gerald Ung needs top-flight legal assistance from lawyers who specialize in self-defense cases. Unfortunately, when cases become political, justice usually suffers, so combine anti-gun politicians with "connected" guy full of holes, and the lady with the scales loses her blindfold.

  9. #8
    i read about this on some other sites right after it happened. I don't know the details and facts but from what I can see I think the fellow was justified in the shooting. There was some more footage and I am not exactly sure what strted it but if someone is pointing a gun in my face I am not about to rush him. And if I am pointing a gun directly at someone and they come toward me then I am pulling the trigger because I doubt that they are getting closer just to shake my hand.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    SE Florida
    From what I can see on the video I don't think the shooter was justified. Sure, there were 4 in the other group but it looks like only 1 of them was being agressive. Both guys looked to be about the same size and the shootee (is that a word??) wasn't carrying a weapon. The shooter is in some serious trouble. Attempted murder?? Not in my opinion but assault w/ a deadly weapon might be in order.

    I found that when I'm carrying, I'm much more patient and tolerant of others....specifically the loud-mouth yahoos who get a couple of drinks in them and start sporting some serious beer muscles. I'm far more likely to take the high road and walk away when I'm packing.

    Now if I'm not carrying, I have a much greater tendency to say "What did you call me.....?"

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by utimmer43 View Post
    I didn't see anything in the article or video about him drinking. However, I also didn't read all 76 pages of the PAFOA thread. Has it been verified that he was drinking?
    Link? I'm too lazy to look for it, lol.
    One must be wary of the mentality creating the problem or the law creating the crime.

    I love America and the Constitution, if you don't then get out!

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