LEO Right to disarm legal Concealed Carrier? - Page 4
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Thread: LEO Right to disarm legal Concealed Carrier?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Massachusetts....
    Posts
    44
    In my 42 years almost all of the LEO's that I have encountered have been fine officers except maybe one or two. If I were to be pulled over while carrying I would, even though I am not required to, hand over my driver's license and CCW license and would inform the officer that I was carrying my firearm. He would most likely be able to see it on his computer anyway and it would foster, hopefully, an air of trust. People who are licensed are generally considered to be the LEO's best friend. Also if I were asked to disarm I would be pretty nervous about it. Just the fact that there is going to be a loaded gun moving about... I think most LEO's would probably tell you to leave it right where it is and not to touch it.

  2.   
  3. Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post
    [B]

    If Indiana state law does not allow police officers to confiscate firearms on (public) highways, locals can't either.
    I love and miss Indiana very much (formerly from Illinois). God Bless

  4. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kentucky
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    699
    Quote Originally Posted by fataugie View Post
    Actually, the law says that they (cops) can't confiscate your gun, ammo, etc UNLESS you are doing something listed below in #3. So, stomping someone's butt into a mudhole would be cause for Officer Friendly to confiscate your weapon.
    Well you wouldnt make a very good lawyer would you?

    (3) The provisions of this section shall not apply to the taking of an item specified in subsection (1) or (2) of this section from a person who is:
    (a) Forbidden to possess a firearm pursuant to KRS 527.040;
    (b) Forbidden to possess a firearm pursuant to federal law;
    (c) Violating KRS 527.020;
    (d) In possession of a stolen firearm;
    (e) Using a firearm in the commission of a separate criminal offense**; or
    (f) Using a firearm or other weapon in the commission of an offense under KRS Chapter 150.
    Effective: July 12, 2006
    History: Created 2006 Ky. Acts ch. 240, sec. 7, effective July 12, 2006.

    Would you care to point out how anything under subsection three gives them the authority? The only one even remotely close is (e) and using my fists to beat someone down is not using my firearm now is it?
    One must be wary of the mentality creating the problem or the law creating the crime.

    I love America and the Constitution, if you don't then get out!

  5. #34
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    Dec 2009
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    Kentucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix View Post
    The recent laws in Kentucky and elsewhere, prohibiting gun confiscation in time of emergency, are a natural reaction to police abuses in New Orleans during that hurricane. But they don't really change traffic stops much. Without taking time to study applicable law in all 50 states, I'd say it's a pretty good bet that the cop stopping you can disarm you if he wishes. I agree that letting the average Glock or Beretta armed cop play with my condition one 1911 is a recipe for disaster. But there it is: "Officer safety" is the Prime Directive. If the Officer is scared of you (and these days, most of 'em are), he can pretty much do what he wants, disarm you, cuff you, etc. Most likely he can shoot you to death, and so long as he says "I believed my life was in danger," it will be a "good shoot."

    I was stopped a while back by a Deputy. He was cool, mentioned my speed but did not write a ticket to take my money, as is the prime function of a State Trooper. I was driving Kathleen's Jeep. After her ran my license and was about to send me on my way, he asked if I had my gun with me. He was cool, didn't ask to see my gun, but I'll tell you Washington DOES link CCW info to driver's license info. I have a hunch that if it had been my car, the vehicle license, linked to the owner's driver's license would have told him I carried.

    My state does not have a requirement to declare one's gun to a cop, only to show the Concealed Pistol License (like any other license) if a cop asks to see it.

    There's no reason for this data linkage and "warning" to the officer, except the hoplophobes wanting to provoke incidents. Cops are trained to consider all people as possibly armed. And CCW carriers as a group commit FAR fewer crimes per capita than the general public, even fewer than sworn Officers. But the idea of being confronted in a strange place, perhaps at night and isolated with one's family, by a somewhat hostile armed stranger in uniform (if you can call the paramilitary jumpsuits some of 'em wear today "uniforms"), who instantly demands you disarm, is unsettling to say the least. I think there's a secret hope someone will resist and they can use the incident to campaign against CCW.

    But when it comes to a stop, the cop does have the right to demand your gun. I will not go out of my way to tell him I have one. Personally, since learning that CCW info is linked to driver's license data, I think one should carry two or three guns, and give up one when it is demanded. But then that's me. This is 21st century Amerika and there is no guarantee at all that a policeman is your friend or has your best interests at heart.

    My goal is to survive.
    You are correct sir in that the law's foremost intention was to prevent disarmament in times of emergency. However, our legislators had the presence of mind to insert "or at any other time" into the law, which speaks of times that are not an emergency. Because they were obviously worried that some libtard would try to say that since it wasnt codified, that only in times of emergency could a person not be disarmed. They prevented future problems with having to clarify the law.

    So in Kentucky, no, a LEO does not have a right to disarm you unless you have used your firearm in the commission of a crime or they have RAS that you are about to. I know this, because I have personally told LEOs that they could not have my firearm(once during a traffic stop and once on foot) and I articulated why using the law. If they had the authority, don't you think they would have insisted instead of backing off because I knew what I was talking about?

    Now granted, if they wanted to be a hard ass and draw their weapon and demand it, of course I would comply, i'm not stupid. But those types can be dealt with later in a court of law over deprivation of rights under color of law.
    One must be wary of the mentality creating the problem or the law creating the crime.

    I love America and the Constitution, if you don't then get out!

  6. Gee, that's almost enough to make me move to Kentucky.

    One must be wary of the mentality creating the problem or the law creating the crime.
    Wise words. In many cases, the law is designed to create more "crime." And today's mentalities create many problems.


    FWIW, I carry two wallets and I carry my driver's license in one and my CPL in the other. There is no duty to declare the gun in my state, so I'll wait until asked. Having one small town cop go paranoid/nuts on me because he saw my CPL was enough.
    “The police of a State should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight is the foundation of civil freedom.” Heinlein

  7. #36
    You're right. I wouldn't.
    When I read it I thought it said unless in the commission of a crime...I missed it had to be using a firearm.

  8. #37
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    McAlester, Oklahoma
    Posts
    408
    In Oklahoma, we are required to inform the LEO that we are carrying a firearm, if we are armed.

    D. It shall be unlawful for any person to fail or refuse to identify the fact
    that the person is in actual possession of a concealed handgun pursuant
    to the authority of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act when the person
    first comes into contact with any law enforcement officer of this state
    or its political subdivisions or a federal law enforcement officer during
    the course of any arrest, detainment, or routine traffic stop.

    If the state has some link that shows if you have a CWL, that does not mean that you are carrying your firearm at that time.

    Also we Okies cannot be disarmed unless we are in violation of some other law.

    E. Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize a law
    enforcement officer to inspect any weapon properly concealed without
    probable cause that a crime has been committed.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by ldsgeek View Post
    I was stopped in CT many moons ago while carrying a 1911, cocked and locked. I let the officer know I was armed and the next thing I know there are two locals and a state cruiser on site. They wanted me to disarm so I slowly handed one of them the handgun and none could figure out how to clear it. They had me do that with all three cops having a hand on their own gun. Since it wasn't what they trained with (Beretta 92 at the time) they were clueless and more dangerous than I was.
    Unreal my friend ! Very scary to have to worry about a numb skull not knowing a semi-auto from a hole in the ground ! A few years when coming to (Vegas, always came legally armed) when I was checking my firearm at Midway Airport in Chicago Southwest Clerk jumps backwards and is very afraid of me . I ask what's wrong another clerk comes over and checks gun case for me and after other clerk goes away she tells me first clerk had semi-auto go off and shot into the wall from a travelling Cook County Sheriff (maybe that's why Chicago doesn't line handguns ? ) . Sad story but I saw it with my own eyes !!!

  10. #39
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    Dec 2009
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    Kentucky
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamilton Felix View Post
    Gee, that's almost enough to make me move to Kentucky.



    Wise words. In many cases, the law is designed to create more "crime." And today's mentalities create many problems.


    FWIW, I carry two wallets and I carry my driver's license in one and my CPL in the other. There is no duty to declare the gun in my state, so I'll wait until asked. Having one small town cop go paranoid/nuts on me because he saw my CPL was enough.
    Yeah, it just kinda came to me one day, a moment of clarity or an epiphany if you will.
    One must be wary of the mentality creating the problem or the law creating the crime.

    I love America and the Constitution, if you don't then get out!

  11. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    699
    Quote Originally Posted by fataugie View Post
    You're right. I wouldn't.
    When I read it I thought it said unless in the commission of a crime...I missed it had to be using a firearm.
    Just have to read and reread, I've gotten a few LEOs on the details too lol and they're paid to enforce the law. I OCed right into a courthouse once that had a weapons prohibited sign. Simply because by the statute, the OC couldn't be prohibited, because a state office other then those involved in court proceedings was in the same building.

    Needless to say, the sheriff's deputies in the courthouse were stumped when I started reciting the law and how they could not forbid me entry. Well obviously, they still did, but I asked to know where the sheriff's office was to go file a complaint with the sheriff. See the OC of a firearm cannot be forbidden in a sheriff's office or police station here either, so I walked right in and spoke with the sheriff. I noticed him taking note of my firearm of course, but nothing was said so he had that part right.

    I argued with the sheriff on the validity of the OC prohibition, but he wouldn't budge, he brought up a OAG(opinion of the Attorney General), that at the time I actually wasn't aware of regarding the very thing we were talking about and that he could prevent entry. So at that point I wasn't sure if he had me, but as it turns out, that OAG gave the very same interpretation of the law that I had.

    However, I haven't raised a stink about it with local 2A supporters because I need to get up there and get my CC license first. Although ours is a shall issue state, they can take up to 90 days. Although most take 2-3 weeks, I bet mine will take longer once I start rattling the cage lol.
    One must be wary of the mentality creating the problem or the law creating the crime.

    I love America and the Constitution, if you don't then get out!

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