LEO Right to disarm legal Concealed Carrier? - Page 6
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Thread: LEO Right to disarm legal Concealed Carrier?

  1. #51
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    Don't argue with a LEO when it comes to weapons. You may be right in the long run but you'll lose in the short run, gauranteed. Just do what they tell you and argue with them after they feel safe. It's not like they're asking you to do a handstand and whistle Dixie while their dog takes a leak on you. These people put their lives on the line every day so a request by them for you to secure your weapon (or hand it over for the duration of the encounter) seems pretty reasonable. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to need access to my gun while I'm dealing with a LEO. When the encounter is over I'll return my gun to my normal carry status.

    I'm friends with a number of Broward Deputies and they all have a gazillion stories about civilians escalating a situation and ending up in jail all because they won't agree to a simple, reasonable request ("leave the property" or "put your pistol in the glovebox" or "you appear intoxicated...if you drive your car I'll pull you over", etc. etc.). I'm not going to spend the night in jail by trying to be some armchair lawyer.

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Islander View Post
    Now that I think about it, I probably would strongly urge and cajole the officer to reconsider, letting him know that he has no legal authority to disarm me, and then turn over my gun if he escalated, cause I'm not going to get shot for being in the right. I'll write a letter afterword.

    Now, back to sending in that state law language for this thread!
    I believe that most, if not all, LEOs have quite a bit of wiggle-room when it comes to determining when a situation is possibly dangerous. It's a huge gray-area and the officer is going to be allowed to use his discretion.

    Judge: "Officer Jones, why did you confiscate Mr. Smith's gun?"

    Officer Jones: "Because, Judge, Mr. Smith appeared highly agitated [or slightly intoxicated, or a bit disoriented, etc.] and I didn't feel comfortable with him having a firearm on his person"

    Judge: "Thank you Officer Jones. You may step down."

    Get my drift?? In a case like this the law is always going to side with the law. I doubt very much if a judge or a supervisor is going to say "Well you shouldn't have felt threatened. You were wrong to disarm him." Swallow your pride, avoid a night in jail (or worse), and just follow the officer's instructions.

  4. #53
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    Somewhat late to this thread. Pardon me if I repeat or have actually replied on one of the 6 or 7 pages. I have read some of the replies and, quite frankly, hanging on every word or lack of words of individual states' regulations and laws may lead you to the conclusion that you do not have to tell an LEO you are armed or that you do not have to give him your firearm if asked--all during his exercise of his legal duties and responsibities-- is just playing with the common sense intent of the laws and regulations. You want to get lawyered up and all that crap, and proudly stand by your legal rights-fine, have at it--but you are playing word games with laws and regulations that may not have been written well and may have loopholes but, IMO, the intent is very clear, and your responsibilities are very clear. An LEO is doing his job and you should be following his instructions--you don't like it take it up with the Chief or your lawyer but on the street, he is in charge. Just sayin. Do what you gotta do, and I will do what I gotta do. End of story.

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas View Post
    Stormtroopers can do whatever they want. The law is on their side. I just don't want to be shot by some trigger happy Barney or Barbara Fife...
    Sorry, but I just cannot let this comment go. As a former Police Officer, I strongly resent being called a Stormtrooper. Perhaps you had an experience with a LEO that you felt did not treat you in the manner you wished, but until you have been there, don't judge.

    I have stopped many cars, almost always at night, since that is when I choose to work, where I could not see in the car and did not know who was in the car and what they were doing. I had no intention of letting one of them shoot me, so I took whatever precautions I felt necessary to provide for my safety, the safety of my partner and the safety of those in the car I was stopping.

    Back then, there was no such thing as legal carry in Texas, so if you had a gun you went to jail. If I were still an officer in Dallas, I still would take those same precautions but taking into consideration that it is legal to carry a firearm under the legal parameters in that state.

    I would do whatever I felt was necessary, within the law, to provide for the safety of all concerned. That does not make me or any officer a Stormtrooper.

  6. #55
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    Hey rabbit: I guarantee you that on these forums and in the public, your supporters outnumber the "citizens", like Texas, who have to refer to or think of you as a "stormtrooper" by a very very large multiplier. Just remember that only sticks and stones can hurt your bones but words from people who have to resort to trash cannot and never will hurt you. God Bless You and have a wonderful and safe and healthy Xmas and New Year.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey rabbit: I guarantee you that on these forums and in the public, your supporters outnumber the "citizens", like Texas, who have to refer to or think of you as a "stormtrooper" by a very very large multiplier. .
    to kelcarry

    We are all CITIZENS of this great country. This is why I can express my opinion without fear of retribution.
    At the same time criticism of the governmental organizations and it's policies does NOT make me less of a patriot then anybody else.... Remember that...

    to Rabbitcreekok

    We can only judge things from our experience. I lived in Texas over 20 years and I have yet to meet/see/hear about a policeman that has a good attitude, well natured, calm and does not exhibit some form of sociopathic tendencies. Most of the cops that I had misfortune to come in contact with seemed to thrive on fear and intimidation. They all appeared to have genuine feeling of contempt and mistrust towards the rest of the population....
    Soooo, if there's any "good cops" out there...I haven't met any...ever...
    Never happened...

  8. #57
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    Hey Texas: You are so distracted with your filthy language that you cannot even read nor tolerate comments concerning same. I did refer to you as a citizen, but you apparently missed that comment. What you should have said is that your language, re: stormtrooper, was uncalled for and apologize. Apparently you and others, who somehow cannot express dissenting opinions without demeaning language, has nothing to do about being a citizen and acting/talking like a toilet but says a lot about your character and ability to deal with people in a sensible and responsible manner.

  9. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey Texas: You are so distracted with your filthy language that you cannot even read nor tolerate comments concerning same. I did refer to you as a citizen, but you apparently missed that comment. What you should have said is that your language, re: stormtrooper, was uncalled for and apologize. Apparently you and others, who somehow cannot express dissenting opinions without demeaning language, has nothing to do about being a citizen and acting/talking like a toilet but says a lot about your character and ability to deal with people in a sensible and responsible manner.
    This just goes to show how judges and others will take the word of an Officer over that of the citizen. As Texas said he was going from his own experiences with the police officers he had to deal with. I can say that 25 years ago police Officers treated people with more respect then they do now. Why is it that the officers right to safety is more important then my right to safety. I don't automatically jump to the conclusion that the Officers is going to do anything that would cause me to worry about my safety so why do officers get away with labeling me as a potential threat that needs to be disarmed for their safety. I Should have the same abilities they have. As they are the ones who took the job knowing the risks involved with being an Officer of the peace.

    As Texas pointed out and has been the case with me more police officers now treat every citizen as a trouble maker and then get pissed when the citizen tells them what they are trying to do is not within their legal duty as an officer.

    The problem police officers have now is that the disrespectful officers are the ones that are remembered by the citizen and not the officers that do their job with pride. Out of the last five times I had to deal with officers only one was respectful and didn't give the impression that I was just another scumbag he had to deal with before clocking out to go home. As for the highway patrol officers they have all been respectful I would rather deal with highway patrol then with the local police officers.

    It is hard job and one that I know I could not do due to I do not like being shot at and if someone was shooting at me then ran out of bullets and wanted to surrender and go to jail I would still shoot him or her in the knee caps as a reminder not to shoot at a police officer, So due to that I know I can not be a police officer. So I would like to say thank you to all who have chosen to be a police officer.
    Last edited by Kasper; 12-09-2010 at 07:46 AM. Reason: Spelling errors

  10. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by CathyInBlue View Post
    [B]

    If Indiana state law does not allow police officers to confiscate firearms on (public) highways, locals can't either.
    In Indiana, there is NO distinction between Concealed or Open carry !

    We are issued "Carry" permits. We are NOT required to announce we are carrying but I personally think it a good idea to ease the tension.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Islander View Post
    The discussion on what folks would do if pulled over when carrying concealed has me wondering in what states the LEO can legally disarm a citizen who is legally carrying a firearm. It is my opinion that unless there is specific language in the law of your state, it is not legal for a LEO to (1) take your weapon or (2) make you unholster or unload or otherwise disarm yourself unless you are being detained.

    Personally I think it introduces risk to hand your loaded weapon to a LEO, or even to unholster it yourself while sitting in the vehicle. There is no reason to do it if you aren't being detained. If there is no legal precedent, I’d rather not do it and would at least attempt to convince the officer that it is the safest thing to do. Of course, if I am being detained, that is another question entirely. My contention is that just as I would not be obligated to surrender my shoes, comb, or shirt to the officer, he has no right to demand possession of my firearm without probably cause.

    I know in CA they can perform a "safety check" on you gun if you open carry.

    I am specifically asking about a simple LEO encounter where you are not breaking any laws (other than perhaps a traffic violation) and are not being detained.
    I fear what the legal ramifications might be, but if an officer tells me to hand over my firearm, I will immediately place my hands on top of my head turn the armed side of my body slightly toward him and respectfully say "I actually prefer that you take the firearm if I am required to be disarmed". I definitely do not want to put my hand on a firearm during a routine stop, even when instructed to do so. What does everyone else think about this decision?

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