LEO Right to disarm legal Concealed Carrier? - Page 8
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Thread: LEO Right to disarm legal Concealed Carrier?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Except in very limited circumstances you have no right to carry a firearm in public in Florida, for instance. That right was taken away from you.
    I have a small, laminated piece of plastic with my picture on it that allows me to carry a firearm in public almost anywhere I go in Florida and in 34 other states as well.

    If you're talking about "open carry" then you're splitting hairs. My right to arm myself has not been infringed upon. I have no desire to open carry anyway so this alleged "violation" of my constitutional rights has no effect on me.

    Feel free to try again. I would genuinely like to know which of my constitutional rights have been stripped from me lately.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  2.   
  3. B2Tall,

    Read my post again:
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT
    Except in very limited circumstances you have no right to carry a firearm in public in Florida, for instance. That right was taken away from you.
    Did I ever mention open carry? Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall
    I have a small, laminated piece of plastic with my picture on it that allows me to carry a firearm in public almost anywhere I go in Florida and in 34 other states as well.
    You paid the government a fee, a tax if you will, in order to obtain their permission to carry a gun. Without paying that tax and obtaining the government's permission to carry that gun, in all but limited circumstances it would be illegal for you to carry that gun on your person.

    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall
    My right to arm myself has not been infringed upon.
    Really?!? What if you had to obtain a training certificate and pay for the government's permission in order to vote? Do you think that paying the government for permission to vote is infringing upon an American's right to vote? In 1966 the US Supreme Court ruled that imposing a poll tax did in fact infringe upon the right to vote. So how is carrying a gun differently.

    You have no right to carry that gun. You have paid the government to issue you a card which grants you the privilege of carrying that gun. And it's got nothing to do with open carry.

    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall
    Feel free to try again. I would genuinely like to know which of my constitutional rights have been stripped from me lately.
    How can you say that you are engaging in a Constitutional right when you cannot engage in that activity without having to pay for the government's permission to do so? AND, we are talking about carrying a gun for self-protection here - an activity which has absolutely no effect on the public in general - it only affects anyone other than you if you actually have to use your gun.

  4. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    How can you say that you are engaging in a Constitutional right when you cannot engage in that activity without having to pay for the government's permission to do so? AND, we are talking about carrying a gun for self-protection here - an activity which has absolutely no effect on the public in general - it only affects anyone other than you if you actually have to use your gun.
    Do you have a problem with driving tests before getting a license or should anyone who can reach the pedals be allowed to drive??

    Do you have a problem with a doctor having to be licensed before practicing medicine or should anyone with a stethoscope and razor knife be able to do so whenever they want?? Do you feel as though your rights have been violated because it's illegal for you to turn your garage into an operating room where you perform plastic surgery on weekends??

    Do you believe that convicted felons should be able to carry firearms at will or do current laws violate their rights??? How 'bout a 6-yr old?? They have rights too, don't they?? It's their Constitution as well, isn't it?? I don't believe the 2nd amendment mentions anything about age restrictions. Do you have a problem with a 6yr old packing??

    Strange.......you seem to think that my right to bear arms is being violated but here I am carrying every day and doing so legally. Some of our rights have limitations and specific requirements in place for a reason. There are a world of things that the authors of the Constitution couldn't have possibly foreseen. This is the 21st century, not the 18th. Sometimes the process needs to be refined and amended. I don't want it to be legal for every yahoo out there to be able to carry with impunity and as a result I have no problem proving that I'm qualified to do so (i.e. "getting government permission").

    Still trying to find out which of my rights have been taken away from me.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  5. A law abiding citizen who has no prohibitions against them, but simply cannot afford the training and license fee has had their right to carry a gun taken away from them by the government. Just like certain segments of citizens had their rights to vote removed from them by the government when the government attempted to keep them from voting by imposing a poll tax.

    It's that simple. You are not exercising any right to carry a gun at all in Florida. What you are is part of an elite, licensed group, who have paid the government to be part of an elite group.

    What the heck does driver's licensing have to do with it? I don't see anywhere in the Constitution where it says, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and drive cars shall not be infringed."

    If you REALLY want to honor the 2nd Amendment then any person whom the government feels is safe and free enough to walk on a public street should have the free ability to keep AND BEAR arms on that same street.

    All you are saying is that "some" infringement is not really infringement. We know what you call it - "reasonable regulation". Yeah, right. Poll taxes to keep certain people from voting was just "reasonable regulation" too, right?

  6. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Do you have a problem with driving tests before getting a license or should anyone who can reach the pedals be allowed to drive??
    Driving a motor vehicle has never been a right, always considered a privilege.


    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Do you have a problem with a doctor having to be licensed before practicing medicine or should anyone with a stethoscope and razor knife be able to do so whenever they want?? Do you feel as though your rights have been violated because it's illegal for you to turn your garage into an operating room where you perform plastic surgery on weekends??
    Since when is being a doctor ever been a right? I have the right to seek employment in the field I desire. Qualifying for that right, is an education. And in many cases, a privilege.

    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Do you believe that convicted felons should be able to carry firearms at will or do current laws violate their rights??? How 'bout a 6-yr old?? They have rights too, don't they?? It's their Constitution as well, isn't it?? I don't believe the 2nd amendment mentions anything about age restrictions. Do you have a problem with a 6yr old packing??
    Until the gun control act of 1968, once having served their sentence, including any probation, usually all rights were restored to convicted felons. The idea of a felon losing the right to keep an bear arms permanently is a 20th century idea. (At least on the federal level, I can't say for sure on the state level.) And personally, I have no problems with non-violent felons having their 2nd amendment rights restored. Childrens' rights have usually been subject to the rights and control of their parents, where it belongs. I wouldn't let my 6 year old carry a gun, even if the gov't had no rule against it. Would you?

    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Strange.......you seem to think that my right to bear arms is being violated but here I am carrying every day and doing so legally. Some of our rights have limitations and specific requirements in place for a reason. There are a world of things that the authors of the Constitution couldn't have possibly foreseen. This is the 21st century, not the 18th. Sometimes the process needs to be refined and amended. I don't want it to be legal for every yahoo out there to be able to carry with impunity and as a result I have no problem proving that I'm qualified to do so (i.e. "getting government permission").
    So in other words, you don't care if your rights are infringed upon, so long as the gov't gives you a pat on the head and the license in your wallet, so you can pack? Does that about sum it up?

    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Still trying to find out which of my rights have been taken away from me.
    Really? Let's see what happens if you walk down the street with your pistol carried openly.

    See, I CAN do that in Michigan. Open carry is a RIGHT here. The privilege is carrying concealed. I have to take a training course, pay a fee and pass a background check. Come to think of it, I have to renew my privilege....I mean my license this year.

    If you can't see how our 2nd Amendment rights have been infringed on the Federal, State, and in some local areas, well, I'll not comment any further. It would likely be futile anyway.
    Big Gay Al: Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
    An unarmed person speaking of the benefits of gun control is like a
    eunuch speaking about the benefits of sexual abstinence.

  7. #76
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    Can you both take this to PM's so we can continue the thread please?

  8. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    A law abiding citizen who has no prohibitions against them, but simply cannot afford the training and license fee has had their right to carry a gun taken away from them by the government. Just like certain segments of citizens had their rights to vote removed from them by the government when the government attempted to keep them from voting by imposing a poll tax.

    It's that simple. You are not exercising any right to carry a gun at all in Florida. What you are is part of an elite, licensed group, who have paid the government to be part of an elite group.

    What the heck does driver's licensing have to do with it? I don't see anywhere in the Constitution where it says, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and drive cars shall not be infringed."

    If you REALLY want to honor the 2nd Amendment then any person whom the government feels is safe and free enough to walk on a public street should have the free ability to keep AND BEAR arms on that same street.

    All you are saying is that "some" infringement is not really infringement. We know what you call it - "reasonable regulation". Yeah, right. Poll taxes to keep certain people from voting was just "reasonable regulation" too, right?

    You're confusing state's rights with federal law. Federal law has nothing to do with carry laws in Florida or any other state. The Constitution specifically grants states the right to fill in the blanks as they see fit. It's called the 10th amendment.

    The 2nd amendment grants you the right to bear arms (and that's open to much interpretation considering it refers specifically to state-sponsored militias). The 10th amendment grants states the right to govern and monitor how those arms are borne. The Supreme Court ruled a long, long time ago that the Bill of Rights is not unimpeachable and that some laws are permissable even if they violate the literal interpretation of the BofR. (i.e. Freedom of Speech does not give me the right to lie to somebody in a business deal, threaten somebody, or to slander somebody).

    You don't get to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution you support and which parts you don't. It's all or nothing. I support The Constitution in it's entirety, not just the parts I find convenient. Got a problem with your state's gun laws?? Move to New Hampshire where permits are not needed, otherwise lead a campaign in your state to get the laws changed. That's how it works in this country.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  9. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    The 2nd amendment grants you the right to bear arms (and that's open to much interpretation considering it refers specifically to state-sponsored militias).
    Yeah , No.

    You may want to google Heller V. DC

    1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 253.

    DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

  10. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Yeah , No.

    You may want to google Heller V. DC

    1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 253.

    DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER
    OK but my point remains - the Constitution grants the right to bear arms but it also grants states the right to mitigate how those arms may be borne. I may not agree with the likes of NY, Illinois, or NJ but I respect the process that resulted in those decisions. It's done entirely within the parameters of the Constitution. The Supreme Court has, on occasion, stepped in and ruled certain restrictive gun laws unconstitutional but by and large they have supported states that have passed laws to restrict how guns may be carried and used.
    (Insert random tough-guy quote here)
    "See my gun?? Aren't you impressed?" - Anonymous sheepdog
    The hardware is the same, but the software is vastly different.

  11. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    I have a small, laminated piece of plastic with my picture on it that allows me to carry a firearm in public almost anywhere I go in Florida and in 34 other states as well.

    If you're talking about "open carry" then you're splitting hairs. My right to arm myself has not been infringed upon. I have no desire to open carry anyway so this alleged "violation" of my constitutional rights has no effect on me.

    Feel free to try again. I would genuinely like to know which of my constitutional rights have been stripped from me lately.
    Your right to bear arms. If you have to ask Charlie Crist for permission (permission that can be revoked mind you ) to carry a gun it isn't a right.

    There's also your right to be free from unreasonable searches in the case of Florida's "sobriety check points"
    See, it's mumbo jumbo like that and skinny little lizards like you thinking they the last dragon that gives Kung Fu a bad name.
    http://www.gunrightsmedia.com/ Internet forum dedicated to second amendment

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