Ccw holder traveling past schools in states where ccw holder is not resident - Page 3
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Thread: Ccw holder traveling past schools in states where ccw holder is not resident

  1. Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    Unless it is unloaded and stored.
    Unloaded, and stored in a LOCKED container.



    Main USA Carry Fed GFSZA95 Thread: http://www.usacarry.com/forums/polit...important.html

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  3. #22
    Join Date
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    i have talked to a couple of lawyers and they feel that the way the law is worded it allows for reciprocity or at least a test case could easily be made in court. either way you feel, it would pay to have a non-resident permit (if available) in any state you travel in. as i understand batf interpretation you would be safe. all it would take is a simple clarification by congress to clear this up. good luck getting obama to sign it.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by santa View Post
    they feel that the way the law is worded it allows for reciprocity or at least a test case could easily be made in court
    I agree that a test case could be made in court. However, if you read the permit exception to the Gun Free School Zones Act 1995 carefully, the biggest hurdle to reciprocity is not how one defines "licensed." Instead, it is the additional requirement that before any "license" is issued that the law enforcement authorities in the State or political subdivision where the school is located perform a background check, and that the State law REQUIRES them to perform a background check before any "license" is issued.

    A lawyer may be able to convince a sympathetic judge that a traveler is "licensed by the State as a result of reciprocity," but even the most sympathetic judge could not be held to believe that the law-enforcement authorities in the State granting reciprocity had been required to perform, and had actually performed any kind of check before the "reciprocal license" was issued to the out-of-state traveler.



    Quote Originally Posted by Title 18 U.S.C. 922(q)ii;
    if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle2009 View Post
    I agree that a test case could be made in court. However, if you read the permit exception to the Gun Free School Zones Act 1995 carefully, the biggest hurdle to reciprocity is not how one defines "licensed." Instead, it is the additional requirement that before any "license" is issued that the law enforcement authorities in the State or political subdivision where the school is located perform a background check, and that the State law REQUIRES them to perform a background check before any "license" is issued.

    A lawyer may be able to convince a sympathetic judge that a traveler is "licensed by the State as a result of reciprocity," but even the most sympathetic judge could not be held to believe that the law-enforcement authorities in the State granting reciprocity had been required to perform, and had actually performed any kind of check before the "reciprocal license" was issued to the out-of-state traveler.

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding...but I'm seeing 2 different things above.

    Paragraph 1) So essentially, while EVERY state may actually do a background check before issuance...unless the State statutes REQUIRE the check...that doesn't fall under the exception?

    Paragraph 2) If i'm reading correctly...For me to carry in a school zone in IE NC with a PA LTCF, NC would have to do a background check on me?

  6. Quote Originally Posted by santa View Post
    i have talked to a couple of lawyers and they feel that the way the law is worded it allows for reciprocity or at least a test case could easily be made in court. either way you feel, it would pay to have a non-resident permit (if available) in any state you travel in.....
    There are a number of topics on concealed carry reciprocity on various forums. I am still not clear on what reciprocity means in terms of cc. If it is anything like other licensing, for example with Professional Engineering licensing there is reciprocity between states across the country, however as a practicing Engineer I would have to apply for a stamp in another state before I could stamp drawing, etc. I am not allowed to just walk across the border and practice Engineering.

    However, people drive all over the country without multiple driving licenses.

    In the case of concealed carry I don't know if it is possible or necessary to apply for a license in another state if reciprocity exists between the states.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by mrjam2jab View Post
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding...but I'm seeing 2 different things above.

    Paragraph 1) So essentially, while EVERY state may actually do a background check before issuance...unless the State statutes REQUIRE the check...that doesn't fall under the exception?

    Paragraph 2) If i'm reading correctly...For me to carry in a school zone in IE NC with a PA LTCF, NC would have to do a background check on me?
    Yes, there are actually three separate and independent requirements laid out in the exception paragraph that must be satisfied before the exception applies.

    1. The State or subdivision has granted a license.

    2. The State or subdivision law REQUIRES the law enforcement authorities to verify the individual is qualified to receive the license.

    3. The law enforcement authorities actually verify the person is qualified before granting the license.



    If we want to get really confusing... we can bring in the definition of "law-enforcement authorities." Some permits are issued by administrative bodies... a county court clerk for example. As court clerks do not have "law enforcement powers" any permits issued by them would not qualify for the exemption. Nearly all permits in the country are in fact issued by law-enforcement authorities, but some are not. I believe this is an issue with some (all?) New Hampshire permits, which are issued by purely administrative bodies.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Shoegoo View Post
    Fr example with Professional Engineering licensing there is reciprocity between states across the country, however as a practicing Engineer I would have to apply for a stamp in another state before I could stamp drawing, etc. I am not allowed to just walk across the border and practice Engineering.

    You bring up a very important point. By getting that "stamp" you are actually getting a separate "endorsement" from the State granting the stamp.


    If there were a State (which there is not) that only granted reciprocity on the condition that a permit holder apply for and receive a "reciprocity endorsement stamp" at the police station, and would not issue the stamp until the police verified the person's identity, criminal history, and valid permit status... that would assumedly meet all three requirements for the GFSZA95 exemption. Anything short of that, would not.

  9. In addition, you have to look at the plain and clear language of the statute. It says:

    "licensed to do so BY the state in which the school zone is required to do so"

    If I have a Washington CPL - Washington issued that licensed. I am licensed to carry a concealed handgun BY the state of Washington. Just because Idaho may recognize that license does not mean the Idaho did the licensing.

    I am licensed to drive BY the state of Wyoming. Washington had nothing to do with the examination or the issuance of the license. Washington simply recognizes my Wyoming driver's license but Washington had nothing to do with the licensing process itself.

  10. #29
    Yes there are. I know people like to just ignore laws they think are dumb and believe they will not affect them but does anybody know if this has ever been enforced?

  11. -------Gun Free School Zones Act 1995 Convictions------


    United States v Danks (1999) USA v. Jordan Danks

    United States v Tait (2000) (Attempted prosecution of an Alabama permit holder) 202 F3d 1320 United States v. Tait | OpenJurist

    United States v Haywood (2003) UNITED STATES of America v. Ira HAYWOOD, Appellant.

    United States v Dorsey (2005) (Upheld the revised law as constitutional) UNITED STATES of America, Plaintiff-Appellee, v. Nikos Delano DORSEY, Defendant-Appellant.

    United States v Smith (2005) USA v. Smith This case says that the mere movement of the gun's component parts in Interstate Commerce is enough to satisfy the jurisdictional element needed for conviction.

    United States v Nieves-Castaño (2007) UNITED STATES of America, Appellee, v. Belen NIEVES-CASTAÑO, Defendant, Appellant. A woman was convicted for having a gun in her home; which happened to be within 1000ft of a school.

    United States v Weekes (2007) [UNITED]UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. PHINEHAS WEEKES, Appellant STATES OF AMERICA v. PHINEHAS WEEKES[/url]

    United States v Benally (2007) United States vs. Benally

    United States v Cruz-Rodriguez (2008) Untitled #1668141

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