When can chambered round lead to A-D ?
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Thread: When can chambered round lead to A-D ?

  1. #1

    When can chambered round lead to A-D ?

    Rather than informing folks that an empty chamber can kill them,
    maybe outlining conditions where a chambered round can discharge
    is better for letting folks make decisions.

    Assuming a gun is not defective, the basic question is what are the chances
    of an accidental-discharge before carry, during carry, and during draw.

    For starters . . . . .
    I carry-chambered if the gun is in full D-A, or has f-pin block + manual safety.
    But a chambered Glock needs a rigid holster, since the striker is half-cocked,
    and the 3 safeties are really all drop safeties. .Carry-chambered is an option
    if you know the gun, have the holster, and accept the risk.
    As far as I know, you won't get in legal trouble for chambered-carry,
    unless the gun fires at the wrong time.

    On some older revolvers, dropping the gun could cause A-D;
    or if it's fully-cocked (unintentional), and the trigger moves.
    A true D-A semi might not have any safety, but it has full D-A.
    If a manual safety is not engaged, and trigger is S-A, chambered-carry is risky.

    Knowing various guns is not necessary; just the guns carried.

  2.   
  3. A firearm should never accidentally discharge unless one of two things happens. I'm not going to get into technicalities of all other scenarios...just the most prevalent.

    1. Someone can't keep their finger off the trigger, which is the ultimate safety. Never trust the safety on a firearm they have been known to fail.

    2. A junk gun that has a pos trigger that would go off if the wind blows hard. I once, got rid if it a long time ago, had a pistol that would discharge if dropped, failed safety tests, and actually if I fired enough rounds in a session the barrel was known to melt.

    Know the four rules of firearm safety.
    1. All firearms are always loaded.
    2. Always keep the firearm pointed in a safe direction.
    3. Always keep the trigger finger off the trigger until on target. And finger off trigger when not on target.
    4. Know what is beyond your target.

    I personally would not carry a firearm without a round in the chamber and if it accidentally goes off then it is my fault for breaking one of the rules.

    Carry safe, carry often!

  4. Glock Safety

    It should be noted that when a Glock is loaded with a round in the chamber the firing pin is only partially cocked. When the trigger on a Glock is pulled it pulls the firing pin back the rest of the way - fully cocking the firing pin and then releasing it.

    When a round is in the chamber on a Glock it is impossible for it to fire unless the trigger is puled as the firing pin is not charged, or cocked enough for it to cause a discharge even if something were to fail.

    Since Glocks (and many other modern firearms) do not have a thumb safety, or other safety "switch" caution needs to be practiced when carrying the weapon loaded to insure that the trigger is not pressed when holstering, or un-holstering the firearm. But really you should exercise safety with any and all firearms regardless if they have a manual safety or not.

    Guns fix stupid really fast.

    I carry my Glock 23 with a round in the chamber. It would an expensive club if I carried it without a round in the chamber. When I holster, or un-holster my Glock I make very deliberate moves. I use only holsters that stay open when the gun is removed, you do not want fingers flailing about to keep a holster open when your re-holstering.

    You can hear many stories about ND (Negligent Discharge, there are no "accidents" when it comes to firearms) and Glocks. When you get down to the details you find that someone had a finger where it should not have been, or a draw string got caught, whatever. Either way it always comes down to negligence.

    Giving exception for for firearms using non-factory modifications, poor maintenance, etc. - with all modern firearms it comes down to a simple fact: they will not fire unless the trigger is pulled.

    If you are not comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber, you should not be carrying a gun.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Northerns Georgia
    Posts
    41
    I see where your going,but like you said in part,why worry if you have a good holster and know how to handle it? I carry condition 1,cocked and locked,however you want to say it.I have dropped one of my 1911s,and it was pretty nasty,but it didnt go off.
    I Love Nicki Minaj

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    18
    If you are not comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber, you should not be carrying a gun.
    Next you will be telling me if I don't carry the same gun as you I shouldn't be carrying a gun.

    Who put you in charge of what I should be comfortable with???

    hatchet

  7. Quote Originally Posted by hatchet19 View Post
    Next you will be telling me if I don't carry the same gun as you I shouldn't be carrying a gun.

    Who put you in charge of what I should be comfortable with???

    hatchet
    I don't presume to be in charge of anything. I just doubt that anyone is capable of drawing a concealed firearm, and racking the slide as fast, competently, or safely as someone can draw one with a round in the chamber. Beyond speed, and safety - if the s&[email protected] hits the fan, having someone fumble around with their firearm trying to load it is probably more of a danger to themselves and everyone else than a help.

    If you've ever seen, or done any training it always starts out with you having a firearm that is ready. That is, loaded, and cocked.

  8. #7
    1. Truly accidental discharges are caused by defective guns.

    2. 99+% of unintentional discharges are negligent discharges - the person(s) involved violated basic safety rules.

    3. A loaded chamber is a necessary pre-requisite for a UD, but doesn't cause one.
    - enfield

    Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    18
    OK, maybe my reply was a little aggressive. I agree with what everyone is saying about proper holsters, knowing your gun...ect. But telling someone they have to carry with a round in the chamber even if they are not comfortable doing so, is bad advice in my opinion. Maybe encouraging them to practice more, become more familiar with their gun and ensure they have quality and reliable equipment first would be better advice. Once you have confidence in your equipment and skills, then carrying "cocked & locked" isn't such a big deal.

    Maybe then negligent discharges would become much rarer.

    hatchet

  10. Quote Originally Posted by edd browne View Post
    Rather than informing folks that an empty chamber can kill them,
    maybe outlining conditions where a chambered round can discharge
    is better for letting folks make decisions.

    Assuming a gun is not defective, the basic question is what are the chances
    of an accidental-discharge before carry, during carry, and during draw.

    For starters . . . . .
    I carry-chambered if the gun is in full D-A, or has f-pin block + manual safety.
    But a chambered Glock needs a rigid holster, since the striker is half-cocked,
    and the 3 safeties are really all drop safeties. .Carry-chambered is an option
    if you know the gun, have the holster, and accept the risk.
    As far as I know, you won't get in legal trouble for chambered-carry,
    unless the gun fires at the wrong time.

    On some older revolvers, dropping the gun could cause A-D;
    or if it's fully-cocked (unintentional), and the trigger moves.
    A true D-A semi might not have any safety, but it has full D-A.
    If a manual safety is not engaged, and trigger is S-A, chambered-carry is risky.

    Knowing various guns is not necessary; just the guns carried.
    An 'accident' is an act beyond your control. An ice storm knocking down a tree onto your car is an 'accident'. Me backing into your car in the parking lot is not an 'accident', it's an 'act of negligence'.

    I hate playing these semantics games but it is important in this case to be VERY precise in what you say so what you mean is completely clear.

    By the same token, if a firearm has an unintended discharge because of a mechanical defect or failure, then it's an 'accidental discharge'. If the round goes off due to human intervention, it's NEGLIGENCE on the human in question's part.

    EVERY negligent discharge started with a round being chambered in the gun. Guns don't go BANG! without a round being chambered. IF the gun does NOT malfunction, then it is pretty much automatically the HUMAN'S fault.

    Oh, the 'older DA's' you mentioned was the Smith and Wesson 'long action' that has been out of production for about 50 years. The most popular of the guns were the 'Victory' model .38 S&W and .38 Special made for WW2.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by hatchet19 View Post
    OK, maybe my reply was a little aggressive. I agree with what everyone is saying about proper holsters, knowing your gun...ect. But telling someone they have to carry with a round in the chamber even if they are not comfortable doing so, is bad advice in my opinion. Maybe encouraging them to practice more, become more familiar with their gun and ensure they have quality and reliable equipment first would be better advice. Once you have confidence in your equipment and skills, then carrying "cocked & locked" isn't such a big deal.

    Maybe then negligent discharges would become much rarer.

    hatchet
    No, no, please re-read what I wrote so that you understand it:

    "If you are not comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber, you should not be carrying a gun."

    In my opinion someone carrying a gun that is not ready, that is no round in the chamber, is more of a danger to themselves and others, then they are a help.

    As such, if you are not comfortable carrying with your firearm in a ready-state (that is "cocked and locked") then you should, in my opinion, *not carry at all* until you have had the training/practice that gets you to a place where you are comfortable carrying your firearm in a ready state.

    You will be more of a hazard drawing our gun, and then trying to rack the slide back vs. having to only draw and get sights on target. There is enough to think about in a situation that requires you to draw your gun that your better off not adding un-necessary steps that only serve to complicate.

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