Do You Support Nation Wide Constitutional Carry? - Page 24

View Poll Results: Do you support nation wide permitless carry?

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  • Yes

    162 79.41%
  • No

    42 20.59%
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Thread: Do You Support Nation Wide Constitutional Carry?

  1. #231
    Training courses can help some people, but shouldn't be a requirement of law; anyone smart enough to make the decision to carry is smart enough to seek the training they require
    If you believe that you are living in a dream world. I have known people all my life that regularly carried a gun on them and very few of them could tell you the four rules of gun safety or any close version of it. I remember back during the "Saturday Night Special" discussions my Father having to go get at least one of the fellows that lived on our "place" out of jail every weekend for some kind of gun violation, usually threatening to shoot someone. After the gun laws changed the frequency of having to get someone out dropped but not a lot.

    No laws are going to stop people from carrying or make them learn safety and they sure aren't going to learn it on their own for the most part.

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  3. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN1910 View Post
    If you believe that you are living in a dream world.
    I don't think so. They're all plenty smart enough, they just lack the personal responsibility my entire post was about. They also are lacking any reason to take their responsibility seriously because there simply are not enough stern punishments for those committing irresponsible actions to create examples for others that might be irresponsible as well.

    We are supposed to be responsible for our decisions and actions and we already have enforcable laws for those that have proven themselves irresponsible

    You've just simply proven the point that putting information in front of someone doesn't mean they will be any less clue-free than when they started. I clearly stated it was about personal responsibility. One should be able to gather from the context that when I stated "they are smart enough" I was also indicating "responsible enough" and as also stated, if they happen to not be smart enough or responsible enough, we can deal with their irresponsibility with current laws as needed.

    Freedom is not freedom without the freedom to fail. There is no single method to set someone up for successful and safe firearm handling, and for anyone to think some mandated class will is nothing short of foolish. People just need to understand failure to safely and successfully carry a firearm without incident is punishable by law and mistakes, ignorance, or accidents are not allowed.
    Last edited by LPC1625; 05-07-2011 at 12:57 PM. Reason: My rockin hillbilly grammar.

  4. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRTCP88 View Post
    I would like for each of the states to adopt it, but I do not support the Feds getting involved. As for why...the 2nd Amendment says "the right to keep and BEAR arms shall not be infringed." It's unconstitutional to have to ask the damn government for permission to exercise a right.
    I agree, but part of the Federal Government's role (at least in my mind) is to assist in managing cooperative efforts between the states. I think for it to be nationally recognized it would take at least a minimal inclusion of the Feds for managing specifics and assist in keeping all the states on the same path. I think with the right to keep and bear being protected under 2A of the US Constitution and a nationwide right, they somewhat have a responsibility to protect us from state and local governments that might seek to limit us.

  5. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by LPC1625 View Post
    I don't think so. They're all plenty smart enough, they just lack the personal responsibility my entire post was about. They also are lacking any reason to take their responsibility seriously because there simply are not enough stern punishments for those committing irresponsible actions to create examples for others that might be irresponsible as well.

    We are supposed to be responsible for our decisions and actions and we already have enforcable laws for those that have proven themselves irresponsible

    You've just simply proven the point that putting information in front of someone doesn't mean they will be any less clue-free than when they started. I clearly stated it was about personal responsibility. One should be able to gather from the context that when I stated "they are smart enough" I was also indicating "responsible enough" and as also stated, if they happen to not be smart enough or responsible enough, we can deal with their irresponsibility with current laws as needed.

    Freedom is not freedom without the freedom to fail. There is no single method to set someone up for successful and safe firearm handling, and for anyone to think some mandated class will is nothing short of foolish. People just need to understand failure to safely and successfully carry a firearm without incident is punishable by law and mistakes, ignorance, or accidents are not allowed.
    The biggest issue is that people should be responsible for themselves and their actions. That being said certain people get defensive because they know that some or even many people will never be responsible so they think that mandating some training will make it all better. Obviously this never works, Hell look at NY we require a 5 or 6 hour safe drivers safety course before people can get a drivers license. If you have ever driven here you know that everything in that class is forgotten by many as soon as the class lets out.

  6. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew14559 View Post
    The biggest issue is that people should be responsible for themselves and their actions. That being said certain people get defensive because they know that some or even many people will never be responsible so they think that mandating some training will make it all better. Obviously this never works, Hell look at NY we require a 5 or 6 hour safe drivers safety course before people can get a drivers license. If you have ever driven here you know that everything in that class is forgotten by many as soon as the class lets out.
    Amen brother! Punish those that prove themselves irresponsible without the useless hoops for the good people doing what is right and doing it the right way. The hoops have proven themselves to be expensive and useless. I've also found many that become defensive over personal responsibility topics in most cases have somewhat deemed themselves irresponsible at some point but aren't readily willing to admit it.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by LPC1625 View Post
    I agree, but part of the Federal Government's role (at least in my mind) is to assist in managing cooperative efforts between the states. I think for it to be nationally recognized it would take at least a minimal inclusion of the Feds for managing specifics and assist in keeping all the states on the same path. I think with the right to keep and bear being protected under 2A of the US Constitution and a nationwide right, they somewhat have a responsibility to protect us from state and local governments that might seek to limit us.
    I guess, what I really meant was the Federal Government passing a law that would force the states to allow it. Once they do that, they can repeal it and abolish concealed carry all together. What I would really like is the states to repeal the laws stating it's a crime to carry a concealed weapon. That way it's default constitutional carry without a bill they can simply repeal.

  8. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    You get the gold medal for overreaction. Yet another constitutional Chicken-little running around in a panic. What next - will the U.S. collapse into anarchy if I don't excercise my constitutional right to have croutons on my salad!

    Just like a license to drive, practice medicine, or be an electrician......a permit to carry a deadly weapon just makes sense.
    A license to drive for private use of the highways is unconstitutional, Why are we being taxed on any rights? The answer is simple: CONTROLL of you because they fear a free being. But more likely Money.

    United States Code: Title 18,31. Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute

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  9. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by B2Tall View Post
    Here are the firearm death rates for each state according to the most recent data from the Center for Disease Control. I have highlighted the 3 states you spoke of as requiring no permit for carrying.

    # 1 District of Columbia: 31.2
    # 2 Alaska: 20
    # 3 Louisiana: 19.5
    # 4 Wyoming: 18.8
    # 5 Arizona: 18
    # 6 Nevada: 17.3
    # 6 Mississippi: 17.3
    # 8 New Mexico: 16.6
    # 9 Arkansas: 16.3
    # 10 Alabama: 16.2
    # 11 Tennessee: 15.4
    # 12 West Virginia: 14.7
    # 13 Montana: 14.5
    # 14 South Carolina: 13.8
    # 15 North Carolina: 13.6
    # 16 Georgia: 13.4
    # 17 Kentucky: 13.1
    # 17 Oklahoma: 13.1
    # 19 Missouri: 12.3
    # 19 Idaho: 12.3
    # 21 Indiana: 11.7
    # 22 Colorado: 11.5
    # 22 Maryland: 11.5
    # 24 Florida: 11.1
    # 24 Virginia: 11.1
    # 26 Texas: 11
    # 27 Michigan: 10.9
    # 28 Oregon: 10.5
    # 29 Pennsylvania: 9.9
    # 30 California: 9.8
    # 31 Illinois: 9.7
    # 31 Kansas: 9.7
    # 31 Utah: 9.7
    # 34 Vermont: 9.6
    # 35 Ohio: 9.3
    # 35 Washington: 9.3
    # 37 Delaware: 9.1
    # 37 North Dakota: 9.1
    # 39 Wisconsin: 8.1
    # 39 Nebraska: 8.1
    # 41 South Dakota: 7.9
    # 42 Iowa: 6.7
    # 43 Maine: 6.5
    # 44 Minnesota: 6
    # 45 New Hampshire: 5.8
    # 46 Rhode Island: 5.1
    # 46 New York: 5.1
    # 48 New Jersey: 4.9
    # 49 Connecticut: 4.3
    # 50 Massachusetts: 3.1
    # 51 Hawaii: 2.8
    Weighted average: 11.5

    You're starting to become my best ally in this argument. Earlier you pointed out that gun deaths are comparatively low and when I went to check on the stats (you were correct) I learned that the NRA and others attributed this to increased training and safety education w/ respect to firearms - exactly what I've been preaching.

    Now you point out that Vermont (a permit-free state) has a low firearm death rate and when I check on those stats I find that the other 2 permit-free states are among the worst in terms of firearm deaths. The very stats that you have presented seem to point in favor of my view and not yours.

    This aspect of your argument isn't holding much water.
    Cite the source or don't put it out there.
    The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday

  10. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by hp-hobo View Post
    Would you please cite the Amendment to the US Constitution that recognizes driving as a right that is not to be infringed. I seem to be unfamiliar with it.

    Thank you.
    The right to travel by common means of the day.

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    Supreme Law School : E-mail : Box 036 : Msg 03678

    United States Code: Title 18,31. Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute
    The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday

  11. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfettered Might View Post
    Driving = privilege

    2A = right

    Stop comparing them please.
    driving or traveling in a private means is not a prilvege, but a right. I have posted links on this site.
    The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday

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